Perry Allen 0:00 I don't know if you did, but I told you, oh, she did. You did, okay, good. I'm excited I get to talk. Great, great. I think, I think we're gonna actually make incredible progress on Melkorka Kjarval 0:13 the park this year. Things in boxes. Frances Uku 0:17 Oh, I just wondered if there are things in in our Jen Karen Smythe 0:21 just came back and I mentioned that you would send an email at 430 or 40. I'm sorry. I think she may be printing them Frances Uku 0:27 out at this point. That's great. Thank you. I will. I'm Karen Smythe 0:46 we don't go back to freezing weather. I Amy Smith 1:07 Yes, something about the air 100 feet they have heaters on the ground so heat rises, so the down job helps Speaker 1 1:14 to push it down. That's so interesting. Speaker 2 1:20 Various rent out of fleet of drones. Speaker 3 1:40 I didn't do an agenda, Speaker 4 2:02 don't you? Speaker 1 2:10 Are these to pass around? Those are Frances Uku 2:20 Yeah, and I'll say again when, when Karen comes back. But the So, there's a presentation I had in in the in your binders already, and this is just attempting to whittle it down to just what proposing we might be considering today. Perry Allen 2:34 Gotcha. This is kind of like the essence of that, of that presentation. We won't do that presentation. Frances Uku 2:42 I mean, I it's up for questions, if anybody, if anyone has them, I'm very happy to go into it. Speaker 1 2:53 I like that little recording sleek. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:58 First got here. They're still using tapes really, like Speaker 1 3:03 a little, big tape record, the cassette tape. What's that? Karen Smythe 3:10 No social security numbers. Frances Uku 3:13 No. Did we have an agenda change? Or is that I'm Karen Smythe 3:17 about to tell you? And I gave I gave one to I thank you. Karen Smythe 3:26 Okay, let's, let's go ahead and start the meeting. Jen. Jen has pulled the acceptance of the minutes for the 13th because she has some changes she'd like to make, so that comes off the agenda, and then before accepting the agenda, there are two things. One is hardscrabble Day event application. We're tabling to the next meeting, and I would like to move the Pride Parade discussion to right after the acceptance of the agenda, because we have some small guests who probably would like to not say yes, because, because Amy is is here to answer any questions about the Pride Parade permit that you might have. Yeah, let's move that up. Any other Karen Smythe 4:19 requests for changes to the agenda. Frances Uku 4:22 Could I have a copy of the new or is that the only one? Okay, just moving up Karen Smythe 4:29 the crossed out the agenda and and just said, hardscrabble gets Frances Uku 4:34 tabled so they can leave. That's it. Okay, got it. I did have one thing, and this is, this is something we can take or leave. I don't know if anyone was reading the news this weekend, but there was just a statement made by the town supervisor about village finances. I wanted to propose to you guys that we might reply such a statement. I think it's worth pointing. Out since he did, in fact, bring it up in the article that the village pays, did you know that each village resident pays $386 for police for town 19 so I mean, I'm happy that he's like, it's great that he wanted to make a statement, but I feel like they could, the town can also put their money where their mouth is and just spread, spread some of that joy. Karen Smythe 5:24 So that's actually what predicated the meeting in the first place to the so perhaps we can put at the end maybe which meeting, the meeting that's referenced in the article, between, Frances Uku 5:37 oh, okay, right, right, right, right. Karen Smythe 5:42 Perhaps we can put that towards the end of just a brief discussion. Yeah, sure. We'll do it after Frances Uku 5:52 the meat of the day. Yeah. Karen Smythe 5:59 Concept, any other any other comments on the agenda? With that, I'll take a motion to accept the agenda. Karen Smythe 6:10 So moved. Thank you. Thank you Karen Smythe 6:15 all in favor. Aye, thank you. Okay with that. The next I the first item now on the agenda is the permit application for pride, pride, pride celebration. So maybe Amy, you can, I think everyone knows that a Beck hook pride was no longer able to do their pride parade that they've done for the past two years. And so maybe with that preamble, Amy, can take it from there. Amy Smith 6:42 So I'm hearing my capacity as part of the events committee. A group of friends of high school youth, teenagers, mostly juniors seniors, reached out to see if they could do a youth led celebration. I met with them a couple times. They are not an official 501, c3, so this is an application that would be contingent approval, would be contingent on the COI certificate of insurance, which is still in progress. I helped them explore a few possible connections with local nonprofits that might be up for partnering at this point, I think what we're looking at is a one day insurance certificate, but we have not they. But I mean, I am, my role is to facilitate other groups vision for events and to help them be legal and in the public interest. So I have been doing everything I can. So their goal is to have a youth led celebration for youth adults are invited, which I think is cute. They want to have a foot power only parade from the high school the same parade route as last year's drive from the high school along market Broadway and into the lot. Patrick has already signed off on that as not a public they would then like to have a lot reserved for. It would be a small festival, so most of the labeling would be probably student organizations. The fundraising nature is, as they said, a bake sale type. But not all of the student organizations. They are pending this until they couldn't invite organization like real nonprofits, until it didn't come up. So pending approval here, they will also reach out to local organizations they want to table. They have a number of musicians among them. But also think that probably what they'll end up doing is using a PA system and just playing a playlist. But they want the option if, you know a group of them wanted to perform a song or whatever. So that is why they're interested in the stage. They're interested in the red and white, and Amy Smith 9:30 that is, they would ask for Prince Street and the lot to be closed. The date is Sunday, June 7, in case you don't remember, last year was also on a Sunday. And it means that there isn't a conflict with a lot of the area, local and regional celebrations. So the high school, they are not representing the GSA at the high school, some of them aren't, whatever, but the GSA is going to be a partner rhythm. Like high school, GSA has also reached out interested in getting involved. There is a there is a core of five of them that are like doing all these they're getting their ducks in a row. It's a lot of work to do a public event, and they are taking it on, I tell them over and over that I'm impressed that they are standing up where adults aren't able to right now or whatever. So their adults, adults in their lives, are very supportive of this and are present, but it's youth led. So the Karen Smythe 10:40 other piece that I like is they're starting at 1130 so coming this way, we do have the one church that's there and they're all done, but, you know, their service is over, so there's no conflict with sounding I forgot. Amy Smith 10:52 They're also doing a they're doing an ask for people who are coming to bring something for the Methodist Church Karen Smythe 11:01 Food Pantry, since it's Amy Smith 11:03 open every Sunday, and the events on a Sunday, well, this is great event. Karen Smythe 11:10 That's wonderful. So we, as a board, we need to approve the application. So I'm in, I'll ask for a motion to approve the bride celebration permit application subject to receiving a certificate of insurance. So moved second Karen Smythe 11:30 happy to second. That right. All in favor. Thank you very much. Fantastic. I think that's so great. I think that's Karen Smythe 11:45 just amazing. Thank you to Amy for facilitating their ability to work and helping kids do Amy Smith 11:50 something they feel proud of. Excellent. Perry Allen 12:00 I haven't seen Liffey in a while. The next Karen Smythe 12:04 item on the agenda is public comment. I don't see anyone here for public comment. So we can move on to the next item. So we are discussing the sewer budget, and I asked our operator, les Kim, to come and give just a little for I know some of us were able to go to the brief overview at the wastewater treatment plant when Congressman Ryan was here, Fran, I know you were, you were out of town, and I would extend the same opportunity to go to the wastewater treatment plant. And I know les is looking forward to educating anyone who would like to come and learn more about more about good bugs. Frances Uku 12:44 And I have been with Wes, but I've been with Jake, so I have some, Karen Smythe 12:48 oh, you've been to the wastewater treatment plant. Super bad morning, but I but I thought this was a good opportunity. And because part of the discussion around the budget is, why is the budget? Why are we proposing a budget that so much less in certain areas than what it has been. And so I thought it would be helpful to have our operator talk a little bit about where we are today versus sort of where we've been and how we got here and what you see going forward. Les Coon, H2O 13:16 Good evening, everyone. Provide you know you guys with an update on the wastewater treatment plant and the progress that's been made since we came in and began helping you guys with operations. Some of you don't know we started that in August of 2025 prior to that, Delaware was leading the charge. And prior to that, was c3, and B. Karen Smythe 13:36 And just to clarify, Delaware took over April 1 of 2025 so Les Coon, H2O 13:41 just over a year ago, just over a year ago, I remember coming in for, I think it Karen Smythe 13:46 was May, our info session, Les Coon, H2O 13:49 yeah, for the walk through. And I remember walking in and thinking to myself, Oh, my God, that's how bad it was. That's how bad it was. Les Coon, H2O 14:03 So, yeah, so from August through December, we were in more of a role visiting February, I think February. Karen Smythe 14:18 Yeah, well, it was warmer than this past winter, but no, because we asked for the other RFPs came in in March, and we opted not, because that RFP was taking over the whole thing. Les Coon, H2O 14:30 My timeframe, well, but your Karen Smythe 14:32 timeframe is fine, because that was in the middle of, oh my gosh, what are we doing? Yeah, right before we decided, I Les Coon, H2O 14:53 needs Delaware to come in. No worries. We visited the plant on regular, pretty much daily basis, even through weekends. We stayed engaged with the village team and helped support them through daily process control and tasks. Then in January of 2026, we moved into a full daily operational management of the facility. Since that time, we've been working really close with the village team and Delaware engineering Les Coon, H2O 15:28 teamwork and communication and everyone being focused on getting the heck to a more stable and predictable operating condition for us, we've also increased our presence quite a bit on site. The plant is now supported by two a day visits by our operator. So we're in once in the morning, then the operator leaves those other facilities that he has on his docket, and then he comes back in the evening and finishes stuff up, checks on everything that regular involvement, also from a project manager and myself, really important, I think, to mention is that that doesn't come at any additional cost to the village. That's all within our normal pricing, but that that presence of having our staff being on site multiple times a day, throughout the day, has for a lot of consistency and daily operations. It is fair to recognize and to say that we have had bumps along the way. Those are to be expected, non complying events during our stabilization and optimization periods. But overall, our Fran has been steadily moving towards, you know, much more stable and well operating plan. A few key improvements that have played a big role in that is we address the big the big one was the EQ. The original system was by, made by Aramco. The way that worked was, it was in a dosing pattern, where it would dose for X amount of time shut off, those for X amount of time shut off. And then if the level reached a high level, it would then, pretty much think of flushing the toilet. It would have pushed everything into the plant. And that was just not good for the biology and the fog and how the plant operates. So it was really clear that, you know, that system struggled with the incoming flows and definitely caused plant overflows. To help alleviate that, we installed a standalone EQ feed pump, which has made that forward flow much more controllable and consistent. Secondly, we also worked on the tertiary filters, where we added additional sand to these filters, bringing it back up to design standards, which helped improve the overall effluent performance, coupled that with improved manual backwashing regularly. So we backwash once in the morning and once in the afternoon. This allows a couple of things to happen. One, it makes sure always one filter is clean in the morning and one is cleaned in the afternoon. But it also spreads that back wash flow, because that goes back to the head the plant. So that spreads that out through the time period when our team isn't on site, speaking of our of our teams when they're not on site. One, the One really huge thing is, and we really appreciate it, is the installation of the alarm system that is really good, because we didn't have visibility into the plant when we're not there. So being able to get these alarms now, if something were to come to a high level that allows us to respond sooner, find the solution to the problem and prevent, or potentially prevent, any non compliant event. More recently, we actually replaced a failed pump station pump on the original plan. That's the one up top by the comments, and that has helped restore reliability to the system. And I think Jake said Karen Smythe 19:29 that new one. He got notification that it's yeah, Les Coon, H2O 19:35 so that's gonna return us to having redundant capability. So if something happens to bump up, our fails, clogs up, whatever the other one will be there to keep flow going forward. One of our ongoing challenges has been the flow variability at the plant. Everybody knows about the magic flush. I'm assuming how we go through a. Having no float, all of a sudden, we have a whole bunch of flow that. And what that has done is it has contributed to operational upsets. Well, I'm happy to say that it appears, and it seems as though we've been actually doing pretty good with that knock on it someplace. We've been doing really good with that by having this standalone EQ pump. One of the other differences between that and the areko system is you have a sit for easy numbers. You have a 10 foot tank. That's not what our tank is, but just for easy numbers. But the Arapaho pump doesn't sit on the bottom, so there's always water Karen Smythe 20:45 in the Arab pump. Was the original pump, yeah, that Les Coon, H2O 20:47 was the original system. So there was always water in the tank. So by installing this standalone pump, it allows us to keep that tank lower, which gives us more buffering capacity when we get these magic flushes with the changes that we made, along with the consistent staffing and our day to day attention, we've been able to smooth everything out a whole lot and operate in a more stable range Overall, the plant has gone from being reactive and challenging to something that is definitely more controllable and manageable, and I would nearly say predictable, which is which is really good. It's not perfect, but it is moving in a positive direction, and we're seeing that consistency build over time. And while things are now more stable, it is still important to note and recognize that wastewater systems will always have some sort of variability, and our goal to move forward is just to continue refining what we've already built on, and can just continue our study improvement from Karen Smythe 22:03 there, just a couple of couple of things we we've now touched all the major systems of the plant that the last one was the pumps in The compounds. Karen Smythe 22:18 Are there any, are there any significant pieces of the system that Les Coon, H2O 22:25 hasn't been nothing significant, you know, there's going to be, of course, we're gonna have these little pumps that we're using now that are gonna fail. We're talking 500 to $1,000 you know, and it's gonna be here and there, you know, if it fails, when it fails, it could last a year? Could last two years? No, don't Karen Smythe 22:45 really know. And then, as it relates to pumping the wastewater treatment plant, sludge removal, yes, we had a lot of emergency pumps, some of them and some of the bigger ones also were taking out sludge from Plant B, for example, so that emptying it, so that repairs could be made that was done between May and June. So it would have hit both, both budgets, both expenses. We are now set up so for the most part, we can do that internally. We don't need multiple trucks to come not that we Les Coon, H2O 23:24 won't need a truck, but, yeah, we're still going to need trucks and more. So we'll need trucks more often for normal, standard sludge hauling in the summer than in the winter. The warmer the weather, bugs grow faster, the colder it is, the slower they grow. But overall, I would not expect that we would suffer that type of 60,000 gallons, and you're having to get rid of it all at once. Karen Smythe 23:53 Anybody now is a great opportunity to ask questions of less. He also just to let you know, once we're done with him, he has another meeting to so Perry Allen 24:03 I feel I've known I don't have a nice question. Frances Uku 24:05 Okay, I did. Hi Les, so I one of my since we're talking about the budget, one of my most the questions of which I'm most interested in is sludge removals specifically, and how we have had a number of emergency there's would you agree that our expenses for sludge removal in particular have been really significant over budget? I'm just going on the numbers I have for the mayor's proposed budget for 2026 27 is for 20,000 is for 20,176 but as of the time this the budget was proposed, we were, we are, yeah, march 20, we already had about 53,000 spent, and they're still April and still may to the end of the fiscal. Would you say then that. So we should be thinking about that. We should be considering, given the state of it. And you only came in in August, and I get that, but it there's still lots of work to be done, as you've just said. So what would your what would your thinking be it's just you're here. I mean, that's something we will discuss just again. Karen Smythe 25:24 Just giving less some context this. These are the these are the invoices. The highlights are the ones that they don't say emergency, but I know them to be like, particularly here at the beginning. They were projects. They were overflows. Les Coon, H2O 25:40 That's just at 52 years old. This Les Coon, H2O 25:48 is just in my time here. I can say that, you know, we've had a lot of emergency pump outs, right? And those are identified as sludge holes. Now with the installation of this alarm system, that that has already allowed us to respond and move water around, maintaining it within the system, giving us that flexibility that we need, that we didn't have before, in order to, you know, not for lack of a better term, thinking of it with water robbing Peter to pay Paul with water, we're taking it from here. We're gonna put it over here, right? And then when we're able to we can then feed it back in and send it back through the plant. So those will significantly be be dropped out. Karen Smythe 26:46 One of the things that we do need to do is to again, because what Les refers to as wasting likes to have the age of the bugs be a certain target, and because they get happier, when it gets warmer, there'll be more wasting, which is literally just taking some of the bugs retiring, and that'll there'll be more of that in the summer, and there'll be less of that in the winter. So if that trying to figure out what that's going to look like, we did in the original budget calculation in January, we did a little bit more of a straight across. So minutes possible. It's a little light, but we're not going to hit anywhere. I don't see any reason why we won't be anywhere near what we're doing now, not historically, because of all the work that's been done to eliminate the need for emergency pumps doesn't mean we won't have one, but Les Coon, H2O 27:43 we are on our end, you know, we're also operating and managing that sludge holding tank. So we are thickening it by allowing it to settle and then pumping off the clear liquid. And we're going from, you know, probably something that's 1% solid, probably to something 3% solid. And that's a huge savings, Karen Smythe 28:02 because that reduces the quantity of what's being pumped out, right? Les Coon, H2O 28:06 We're reducing the amount of, you know, Karen Smythe 28:09 the total volume re treatable liquid. Karen Smythe 28:14 So that's an additional measure that helps to helps to reduce. Again, historically, what we've done is not predictive of what's what's future. Perry Allen 28:23 I'm also hopeful, since you've been you're there twice a day as a team, that will avoid a lot of the emergencies in that way as well. We've got this alarm with people there two times a day. Hopefully we'll be ahead of all that Karen Smythe 28:37 well since so the last non compliance event we had was February 24 Karen Smythe 28:45 that was when the sand filters backed up, and the only emergency pump we've had since then was Karen Smythe 28:56 the pump house. Pump fail, correct? Yes. So we haven't had any of that. Les Coon, H2O 29:02 That wasn't that was that's one of those things you you're not going to predict it. Karen Smythe 29:07 No. But my point in asking about, are there any other systems that we haven't touched with touch yet? That was the one. That was the one piece that we have, not that we thought was okay, and it decided to die at that point. So Jake's putting on Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 29:21 the new ancillary tank once we get more Karen Smythe 29:26 capacity to the pump, to the pump house. Oh, you're talking about so the EQ that this, we have one above ground. Karen Smythe 29:35 We have a second one that's not hooked up yet, and we're hoping to have that hooked up this week. That's the bigger one, if you remember that it needs to be tipped up and then connected with pipe. So if not this week, I would expect next. So that adds additional so get out there. We just break flexibility. Smiley face, but that starts to give us some of the margin. For error that we didn't have, right? You know, a year ago, we didn't have any of that. So while it's still a plant that is not set up for a lot of margin for error, we've created some Perry Allen 30:12 to that point. Was that at the last committee meeting, the electrician maybe mentioned getting a quote on expanding the alarm system, if I'm remembering correctly, has that come in, because it feels like that's been really integral, and Karen Smythe 30:29 that feels the most important alarm was on the EQ thing, because that when that's when that starts to get too high, that leads to all sorts of other problems. So that's the one that's the most important. And I think the other alarm, spots, the word, I'm not thinking contacts, contacts. There are others that would enhance but the most important one is the one that's in there, and because we also have them in the mud, wells, in plant, a plants, right? Oh, yeah, I remember that. Any other questions for Les? Frances Uku 31:06 One I did, I'm sure you manage, I'm assuming you manage other municipalities, wastewater treatment systems and things. It's just for our sewer fund. We don't have any reserves or contingency and so, I mean, basically we're running on on revenue, where we're spent on all of the R and M and these extra emergency that comes out of comes out of, like, comes out of revenue. So is that typical? Perry Allen 31:39 Good question. So Les Coon, H2O 31:41 great question, tough to answer. I'm sure the village was getting a screaming deal from c3 and D, and based upon those numbers, you didn't have to increase your budget much. You know, the same thing has happened. I can tell you with other municipalities that I've worked with where they've had to increase their, you know, their rates by, you know, 12 to 15% and that's the unfortunate part of always having to take the guy who puts out the lowest price, because you're not always getting the best service. Karen Smythe 32:22 So, so one, one example to illustrate that the prior operator never wasted at the wastewater treatment plan ever. Speaker 1 32:31 So the bugs were just there. You know, there were, there were a variety Karen Smythe 32:34 of issues. Were often being washed out, etc. But there was no so there was no storage management, and so there was no expense to that. And so now these guys are managing it, but it leads to an expense that wasn't that wasn't tracking. One of the situations that we're in is it was literally just over three years ago that this plant was put into full service, substantial completion for this, for the plant, a was March 30, 2023, so the idea was, we'd get it started, we'd figure it out, and then we'd say, Ah, this is what it costs to run. Then we would make adjustments to our rates. And the first year, it actually matched, and it was the second year, and there were, there were some odor issues. July of 24 we had to redo the odor control system because it hadn't been installed. There was issues with the installation. It was that fall when we we realized there were additional problems. By December, we knew it was a major problem. And so to start thinking, gee, we need to raise our rates a year ago when we really didn't know, you know, we were in the middle of figuring out how to how to fix what we had. So we really had a year of significantly more expenses, and we hadn't increased the rates, which is why we increased them so dramatically in January for the so and reserves build over time. You know, you don't sort of start out a new system and include the cost of a full reserve. You you build that over time, like we did with the water system. In the water reserve, it's been 15 plus years to build that Frances Uku 34:21 reserve, but you need a balance to be able to build the reserve. And we don't have, Karen Smythe 34:26 well, part of, part of what, part of what we're dealing with right now is the fact that we, you know, a year ago, we were not operating the plant properly, and we had to, we had to do lots of repair, maintenance, adjustment, optimization, etc. And so if we're purchasing a lot of equipment, it would be all needed. It would be nice to run for a little bit to see that we've actually met, met that sort of optimization based on what we have to see where we do land, because you want to balance. Because, yeah. Sure it'd be great to have a nice buffer, but that also means that you're increasing the rates significantly once again. I mean, we, we just, what was it two point, you know, because we more than doubled the rates in for the March bill and so to and the next goal for the rates would be to optimize them and make them more equitable, like you had had suggested back in January, of making it so that the more water you use, past a certain you know past sort of a base, the more water you use, the more you the more you pay. Whereas right now we have chunks. So you could, if your average is 151 gallons a day, or your average is 299 gallons a day. It's the same, same cost that you're and so the next but that requires a change in the code, which is a change in our local law, which is the process. I was wondering, what Perry Allen 35:50 was inhibiting us from me able to just, Karen Smythe 35:52 well, also the calculation to make sure that we are we are meeting the number the minimum is not a small calculation, Frances Uku 35:59 I guess. My question also, just before we lose less. Since you just exactly pointed to the fact that we are, we're basically right sizing from the period of the previous operator, you know, not actually being presenting us a realistic picture of what these costs are. And since you have we're getting more of that more and more every month. So would it not be, would it not be accurate to say that we should be planning for how to run the system based on your how you would, you know, steer? You're the operator now. So it's just, and maybe this isn't a question for you, but it's kind of a question for the floor. It doesn't seem to me that, given what we know now, that we should be budgeting like we are still in pre in pre op, previous operator land. Les Coon, H2O 36:50 Yeah, I am going to respectfully kick that back to you and say I operate within your budget as you know, as best as I can, yeah, you know, you tell me I have this much to spend. I'm gonna do everything I can to make that number for you, Frances Uku 37:10 but to set the number for you. No, no, no, it's I was, yeah, I Les Coon, H2O 37:14 can't, I can't do that. Karen Smythe 37:17 But also, just to clarify, the number that the prior operator was operating under was 91,000 the number that we that's in the proposed budget is 215 so we're not operating under the under the prior system, if you will, sure there's a very significant change in the budget that Frances Uku 37:34 was just mentioning that was, Karen Smythe 37:36 well, it was, it was also the prior estimate in the process of creating the system in the first place, so the engineer had something to do with that as well. Perry Allen 37:48 See Gmail just getting all my name straight through the history. Thank you. This also might not be something. This might be more of an executive session question. I don't know, but has has recourse been explored since there were such grave miscalculations there. So that's Karen Smythe 38:05 we can, we can have that conversation and Executive Session. Yeah, just curious. Okay, any, any other questions for less? Frances Uku 38:14 My questions aren't really for less. My questions are for the board. That's what it sounds Thank you very much. Really appreciate you Les Coon, H2O 38:20 being here. No worries. And if anybody ever has any other questions, yeah, I'll have my card. So if you don't have it, I'll get it to you, beautiful, I'd like to do that. Karen Smythe 38:36 That's great. Okay, that I thought that was an important precursor to discussion on the budget. You all have the budget. So the only difference between the budget from March 30 to the one you have now, which is the one that's much smaller. Apologize for the eyes I was liking the one page. It's actually the projected final that's the only difference. And the proposed budget hasn't changed from the from the March 30. And just a couple of a couple of comments. I did reach out to nicom, which is our New York Council of mayors, Conference of Mayors. Sorry, I was at Council of mayors, Wade Bill tramo, who's general counsel for them, and just ask, what happens if we don't accept a budget the default, which I thought, I thought was April 30, apparently it's May 1. And the answer is, the tentative budget becomes, becomes budget, by force of law, the only piece and we have the ability to make amendments. Apparently, the Office of the State Controller and I just these. These are comments from lead Karen Smythe 39:59 the one. Piece that is, that was, that was clarifying for me, was in the general fund, we have the tax levy. The tax levy cannot change once it's been passed. So as of May 1, either you passed a budget or the temporary or the preliminary budget that was presented becomes the budget. Everything else can change. Though, the Office of State Controller recommends that you wait till June 1 before you make your first adjustment. But so I just wanted to give that context in the in the notion of passing a budget tonight, Karen Smythe 40:38 and then we absolutely have the con, the ability and opportunity many times, to make adjustments throughout the year, which is Karen Smythe 40:52 and Fran, I know you had some perspective. I know that you would like to add a contingency and reserves and what have you I, I guess my perspective on that is, yes, absolutely. And I'd like to see an evolution over time. I'd like to give the, you know, the operations, let's say, four months. Let's see. I mean, we're sort of just we our last non compliance event was February 20. We haven't had one since then. We're two months in. The alarm went off once since it was put in place in early March, and that probably would not have led to a non compliance event, but it was an early warning signal, and it was nice to see that it worked. So I and in going through, we had a meeting, team meeting this morning going through. What are the I mean, I would argue that having $20,000 in the repair and maintenance budget includes a contingency in that, because a lot of what we did this year was, I guess one offs would be and so we bought the two above ground storage tanks. We redid the UDS incorporated into this year's budget. There's, there's, we're expecting the the new pump, plus the used pump that will be included in the expected budget unit, the expected projected final for this year. Yes, there are absolutely things that we will cover, but we're not going to need to buy all the pumps that we did. I'm sure we'll have to buy a bunch, but not as many as we bought this past year. So in looking at what has been spent, and in April, we've spent $1,000 on repair maintenance. So without those three extras that I mentioned, the two storage tanks and the UV rebuild, the amount we've spent today is 16,800 so that's under the 20,000 so I, from my standpoint, the way I look at it as a trying to balance the wanting to have a comfortable revenue, but also not over charging, not charging, it's the wrong word, but, but I'd like to have A little bit more time before we look at what we would like to do going forward with the rates, because the folks in the sewer use area just got a very significant increase in their rates. And I myself would like a little bit more time to drill down a little bit more. I mean, Fran, you're asking excellent questions, and I think there's an opportunity for the sewer team to, you know, we just made a, sort of a more detailed list of the things that may come up into the repair and maintenance. I think we can put some numbers to that. Yeah, I'm happy Perry Allen 43:51 to corroborate this the meeting this morning, in that way that the team seemed really confident that there would be no major expenses this year. You know, that was from Les, from Jake. It seemed, they seemed confident in that way that, yeah, the major expenses were really from those emergencies. And granted, there could be some unforeseen, God forsaken emergency, but in theory, those massive expenses have been handled. I can the team seemed pretty confident that, and I felt good about that, especially when I saw Jake press Robert a little bit about some of the engineering plans, about, oh no, we've had engineering engineers say these things to us before, so I really trusted Jake's perspective in that, because as the one who's like sludging it out. So, yeah, so that actually made me feel confident about that. I don't want to disrupt from this flow, if you had a response to that. But I almost on a contrary note, I. Don't mean to throw a curve ball here, but to that point of how constituents are concerned about the price increase, and we met about that, it was like my last plea in our part of me, yeah, I've had a few different people reach out to me before tonight's meeting, just to be express that once again, of what am I supposed to do, you know, and I can't. And so once again, I'm making a plea almost for the opposite, on some level of I would trusted so much that we might stay under this $20,000 budget, that if we could somehow not make as much in the reserve and have a rebate program or something that could somehow pay back some of these unforeseen expenses? I know that's unlikely, but I have to make one final plea for it. And I think about, I don't know if it could even be set up somewhat similarly to I once benefited from that water program that exists here. I had a pipe burst, unforeseen, wild expenses, and it was forgiven. And that was amazing, and that was that saved me for a second. So I don't some sort of similar program. Frances Uku 46:28 I'm just trying to I'm trying to understand what it is that you might be so what am I proposing? Perry Allen 46:33 The budget I'm proposing, I suppose, figuring out where we're getting this reserve from and stripping a few $1,000 out of it that then go, we give back in some way to these sewer owners, whether it's through a decreased next bill or what, even if we structure it in that we then make it up over years and or something. But just to give people time in the way that you were saying that you also want time to give people time to adjust, that's my final thing Karen Smythe 47:09 to the water situation. You had a water leak and and so rather than have you pay for all the water that went out through the leak, you got a one time. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 47:21 Well, you did. You paid for all the water. You just had the lowest rate. Speaker 1 47:25 Yeah. Okay, so it's totally different structure, Karen Smythe 47:29 say, sewer, but one, one thing that does exist, I believe there's a county program that helps you pay for your heating bill. For example, if you are struggling. I don't know if there's something there was during covid, but it's gone. I was hoping that be something. Karen Smythe 47:48 Yeah, that's for the heat. That's for your heating building. There's no There's no more, nothing for your utility. Frances Uku 47:55 I think so, since we are talking about the reserve, though, this 37 928 82 fair guy. And I don't know, I'm hoping that we've had a chance to look at this slide that I have in the presentation about what this represents. What this reserve is, is it's, we're calling it a reserve, but it's a reserve in many different places like doing this. Okay, so now it's going to be borrowing return on the capital bond, repay payment. It's going to be also, we'll use it when repairs come in that we need. We'll use it for like, it's like you have, you actually have to allocate, you have to have a contingency in the budget. You just, you just have to have a contingency. You can build reserves as part of your So, you know, the sheets that Mary Beth gives us every month that we get about our positions, and you have the general fund and the general fund reserves, and you have the So, so those just distinguishing really quickly, those are so if you think of the fund balance as like your checking account, and then what you have, you can decide how much fluid, how much liquid you wish to invest in your reserve accounts. And so your fund balance you can use. You can put, okay, from this amount of fund balance I have, I'm going to put it in here. Going to put it in there. We have reserves for general fund. We have them for water fund, as we were just talking about, but we don't have anything for sewer right now. So yes, we would like to get to the point where we can build them, but we can't build them. We keep getting hit with emergency, with repairs and maintenance. It's not blaming anybody. It's just the reality, we had a crazy winter. Our costs have just exploded. So having this here, I, I'm, actually, I'm very eager to get to, this is an expression I've learned from the mayor, to get to, yes, I'm very eager to do it. But I just without having a plan for what we do with the inter fund advance that we took from the how do we get this? The super fund currently is not self sustaining. I. We have this is the reason that we needed. This is before you and Craig joined the board, but we needed to take from the general fund an advance. And so my only position is that we have to get ourselves on a solid footing, and the way to do that is to be transparent about how I have a proposal, and it's for discussion, obviously, and it's the subsidy, which we touched on very briefly, in the in the in the meeting, in the monthly meeting, that it's, I think it's, it's, it's a good, it's a good thing to aspire to having, you know, more data and more and and trying to protect, I think it's valuable and valid to try to protect the rate payers. They did just take a very significant hit in this in the winter. But I think we have a we have a crisis of public perception. It may not sound like the thing to do among us, but I really would like to offer to you all that having the general fund just rescue the sewer is going to be the easiest, most straightforward thing we can do to then, once we So, the general fund gives us the amount, there will be some left over. We will be starting the new year, June 1, with a fund balance, we can then slowly start to build whatever reserves, as the chief budget officer leads, it's, it's just, it's just what I'm offering. Karen Smythe 51:33 I saw that that you had put that in in your and what you sent late this afternoon. Frances Uku 51:40 No, this is in, this is a proposal in Karen Smythe 51:42 either, either way. Frances Uku 51:44 But I did put it in the binder so that everyone had a chance to look at it. Karen Smythe 51:48 Yeah, I was certainly looking and hoping that there would be a way to have the general fund hold on to the what was needed for the sewer. And we had rather, rather, I would say, important debates as to what was legal and what wasn't. So I am very happy to look into forgiving the general fund advance, but I am not clear at this moment what On what basis we would be allowed to do that. Sorry, happy to happy to look into it and happy to have that discussion. Frances Uku 52:25 It's just a transfer we make that we don't have to. There's no public hearing. There's no it's just a board decision. Karen Smythe 52:32 That is not my understanding. Frances Uku 52:35 I have things from Wade, from Rebecca. This is all I don't you know i and this is something I'll bring up, because I feel that it has been very much the thing to when I bring things forward, it's the AI. It's the AI. I work very hard. This is not AI. This is all nicom and all things that I bring I don't propose anything that I haven't vetted. It's for the board to decide. But this is just, in my view, a way that we can start on a fresh footing. We need to be seen by the public to be proactive about this. I cannot believe that article. It's just the this, this fund every you know, with the elections, you are new, this is just what's on the Karen Smythe 53:15 public's mind. So did you include the what you got from wave and Rebecca? I don't recall having Frances Uku 53:21 seen this is a, this is how things break out. This is a prison. I mean, it slides from my this is from Fall training, which we'll come back to, actually, later. But this is about how you you can right size, your operations and management. This is, this covers. This is one of the things I used as a reference when I proposed Karen Smythe 53:40 and when we did, when we were discussing needing in advance in February, you didn't bring it up and you, but I'm not a lawyer, you insisted that legally we couldn't we had to pay it back. Well, yes, we Frances Uku 53:52 do, because that is the what the lawyer Karen Smythe 53:54 proposed, opportunity of a transfer was something that was never discussed. Frances Uku 53:59 Well, because you had said that, you had said that the treasurer would present something by May 11. We have to pass this May 1. So I don't have a sense. Karen Smythe 54:10 I'm sorry, you're just conflating a few things. So in January, in January, in February, we passed, we passed a resolution Yes, to take in advance from the general fund. Frances Uku 54:23 Yes, I voted for it. It was Karen Smythe 54:24 unanimous, and there was a lot of discussion of the laws on which it was based, and that it had to be in advance, that it could not be, it couldn't be a long term loan. And I don't think the notion of a straight out transfer was even discussed. It was not. I'm thrilled to have this. If this is if this is possible, that's great, because we Perry Allen 54:44 just rid that debt, right? We would just, we would just be done with that. Karen Smythe 54:48 I just would like some confirmation, because the people that I have spoken to, I'm not aware of that, and so I'm happy to, happy to have that discussion. I. I'm I'm a little uncomfortable having it right now. Frances Uku 55:02 Would you like to then? Because it would require that we call a special workshop if you want to take the time to because I did have this all available, and it's something I had brought up at the meeting, but at the very minimum, I had this on the agenda, and I've worked very hard to make sure that you had, that all of you had the information about what I'm proposing, and if you would like to set a special workshop for us to review after you've had a chance to speak to whoever would make you feel comfortable about the proposal. Then then we can set a special workshop. Melkorka Kjarval 55:33 I just want to add one thing, that when we get a recommendation from the lawyer, we're legally protected as a village board, because they have a Frances Uku 55:39 license as a village board, but not individually, which is what our lawyer came back and said, that we are personally liable. Are you finished? Melkorka Kjarval 55:52 Can I speak? Okay. So one of the things that when we use like an actual person that has a professional degree and a license, we are protected. So this is very interesting information that I didn't know about before, which is great. I would like to discuss it more, but I just want to caution that we don't necessarily vote on something that we haven't gotten someone that has, like an actual license, that can give us protection as a board to vote on. Does that make sense? Frances Uku 56:26 Does my you said that when we passed the sewer rate increase, when we did that, I had presented, which I did at the following workshop, about some ways that we could structure differently. You just referenced it about how we might allocate things differently based on water usage, whatever would be considered most equitable. That's a proposal I made. Then we haven't come back to it. But when I bring things like I said, I do check with nicom. I'm not a lawyer. However, the opportunity is here, and was here has been here for us to take that to the lawyer. If you would like a lawyer, sign off, then let's do that. But this is just a proposal. I am one member of a five member board. I'm just saying that this is a way that we could get ahead of the thing. And it is. It is, in fact, legal. There is no public hearing required. This is just, I'm not trying to show anyone up. It's just the fact, if you would be more comfortable vetting it with someone other than the people I vetted it with. That is fine. Karen Smythe 57:24 I would just love to know who you vetted it with the information this seems the fact that you definitely mentioned it before, but I in the past, you've referenced laws and what have you. In this one, there was no reference to that, and the conversations that I have had with our attorney, when I when, when we did the resolution to take the advance was that we were required by law to pay it back, and there was no other conversation about using the general fund. So I am very thrilled to have the conversation. I just would like some additional, I mean, again, it's, it's over there. I if it's from a presentation, is it very specific to our situation? I would want to make sure, because that would be a big thing to get wrong. Frances Uku 58:13 I understand what I'm saying is, I'm getting the response again. This is from Kyle. This is from our our this is from Council when I asked specifically about these questions about what would happen if we didn't repay by January. Clear, that's very clear. So that's so that's not, I'm not negating that. Karen Smythe 58:32 Effectively, what you're proposing is that we turn in advance into a transfer, which to me, feels a little like semantics, and Frances Uku 58:43 they're very different instruments. It's not semantics, one that'd be great, Karen Smythe 58:47 that'd be great and but Frances Uku 58:49 that was not the one we signed. Was an advance which did have all of the stipulations that it must be paid back in the fiscal, all of that which I'm just saying, maybe there is a plan to do that in the in the in the resolution that we signed, we said that the treasurer will be presenting the plan, May 11. This must be passed by. May 1, so and this must be accounted for. What is happening with that loan repayment or not repayment, that amount that was advanced must be reflected in the budget. That's, that's the only, that's the only case I'm making. So, so that's it. It's not that I had some big transfer idea when we actually signed the resolution to increase the rates. That's not it. Not when we signed the resolution to take the advance. That's, that's not Karen Smythe 59:39 it either. So, so here, so here's, here's this for me personally, I would like to just verify that there is a mechanism to turn what was in advance into a transfer. Obviously, we can talk about that as a board as to whether or not we want to do that, and we. Also have an obligation as a board to pass a budget by May for May 1. So I'm not sure where we go from here, but I as from my standpoint, I I, I presented you with a budget, I feel it's a reasonable budget. There'll be some adjustments over time. I do think there's some contingency that's built into it, as discussed under the repair and maintenance budget, and I so thus I am, I am comfortable with the budget as it is, recognizing that it's something that will be revisited on a regular basis. Frances Uku 1:00:34 Okay, so speaking of subsidies, then can, can we just recognize the subsidies are already baked into the sewer budget, one the water. So currently we have a subsidy from water of 30k Karen Smythe 1:00:46 every year. We have a trance. We have a transfer from water. Frances Uku 1:00:49 That's a subsidy. Yeah, that's exactly the term the the transfer, which is what we were just discussing with the general fund transfer. And we also do not have any accounting for admin in this budget, like currently, the sewer is administered by the General Fund Clarke treasurer. That's, that's what, that's what, that's what covers this. Is that not the case? So, so these are sub these are hidden subsidies. Karen Smythe 1:01:14 So Well, just to also, just to clarify, we started, we started the news. Well, we, were given a sewer system in the very end of 2020, 2020, and the plan was to expand the plant, and that the use fees would cover. Three years ago, we started the new plant. We were going to get settled, we were going to get it going, and then it was, you know, we were going to right size, et cetera. Obviously, three years later, we now seem to have optimized what we have. We've discovered an awful lot of issues, and we are now in a position to do what I was hoping we'd be doing two years ago, expecting we would be doing two years ago. So you're correct, and that's the way the prior administration set it up. And so the question of, yes, absolutely, there's an opportunity going forward to right size to acknowledge, to acknowledge the the admin support, etc. But again, since we just did a two and a half percent increase in the rates, and we now seem to be optimizing the the the operations. I don't think today is the day to I can certainly acknowledge it happy to but I don't think we're quite ready to take that on for the sewer Frances Uku 1:02:38 another just really quickly, since you know so on the budget, we have listed here the general fund advance. And this was something that, something, excuse me, that I mentioned previously when we had about when we had the budget workshop on the 22nd of March, is that I'm confused as to why the general fund advance is listed here, because, as I understand it, and as I just said, when we're talking about cash position, so there's the funds, the fund balances, the reserves, the checking account, and all of the stuff that appears on Mary Beth on the treasurer's report every every month, this is in a budget. Because this should have been, this should be resolved, this general fund advance, however it is that it's taken care of, it's taken care of in this fiscal or it should be per what we for, what we the resolution that we approved. So by the end of the fiscal it's disappeared. So my question is, is, why is it here on the budget when this will not this will not be here as of it should not be here because it will have been resolved. Karen Smythe 1:03:58 So if I understand what you're asking, I we the sewer fund does not have the capacity Cash Wise to pay it back by the end of May, right, therefore borrowing has to happen. So we will borrow the funds so we will have the cash to pay back the general fund, and then we will pay off that loan over time. And obviously we do not have the specifics of that yet, because that's in development. And again, it was my hope that there would have been some grants, etc, to have tapped into. And I have not been successful in finding anything that will do that. But the reason why it's not just disappeared is because it will have to be paid back unless, unless it's possible to have it turn into a transfer, Perry Allen 1:04:55 if I may, chime in do. Since, really a lot of my my first impulse with the sewer was to really ensure good operations. And I think that's actually happening, you know, and now my real strong impulse is to ensure that it's as cheap as possible for everybody that I am very interested in seeing if this is a possibility, to subsidize it out of the general fund? Because my concern is, we get the loan, and I we've talked about it, and I think there are some plans there that are totally reasonable, and I understand, but then we'd avoid having to hike any more costs on anybody else who have to Frances Uku 1:05:34 repay that loan to you know, whether it's outside or and Perry Allen 1:05:39 unfortunately, if I'm if I understand how the structure works, it's the Phase One current users who will have to use that cost, and I just don't want to do that to them. So if there is a possibility of changing this to a transfer, I would be very much in support of that. I think that the public would as well. I think there's been a sorry just the public has expressed, at least to me, those who communicate with me, that there's an interest in the communal helping out those who were suffering. So I think that could be a digestible Frances Uku 1:06:15 it does benefit the village to have a functioning sewer and an enterprise that is self sustaining. And it, you know, it may sound Ooh, bailout or subsidy, but it really is in the best interest of the village. And I would, yeah, I understand that, you know, some of them may need more, may need more time, or may need confirmation, may need in which case I would move that we set a special workshop so that we can come back to this and and have everyone clear about this as a viable possible, as a viable option for us. I don't, I Yes, I don't know. And also just in terms of liability, it's, it's very the so we're expecting something from the treasurer by May 11. The end of the fiscal is May 31 I am not comfortable with what is that 20 days between when we have, like, what is the what is the instrument? Is it alone that you can get, like, right then? How? How does this outside loan actually work? And we just have no assurances. And if our lawyer, if Kyle, is saying that we are personally liable, you had mentioned in the meeting that that's what liability insurance is for, that's not good enough, because that does not protect me or anybody who is seated as of the end of this fiscal Karen Smythe 1:07:37 it does actually protect you. That's the point. Frances Uku 1:07:39 Personal personal liability, yes, yes. That's not what Kyle said in his email, which maybe I Karen Smythe 1:07:44 pull up. Well, I don't, I don't think that's necessary. I have been in touch with Fran Council. He has, yes, we are, we are crunching the time. But there, there are. There is certainly a means to get it done in the timeframe. But what I would recommend, I would recommend, I don't think we're going to solve that here tonight. What I'm what I would what I am going to propose, is that we pass the sewer budget as as it is, as it has been presented. And I'd love to we can certainly set up an additional meeting where we specifically review the loan and, and what, how, how that can be, how that can Les Coon, H2O 1:08:24 be handled. So passing the sewer budget does not foreclose the possibility of changing the advance to the transfer correct, and the general fund is capable of withholding or not of withstanding Karen Smythe 1:08:38 the general fund. There's, well, the general fund already made. That made the advance. It was a cash transfer. Frances Uku 1:08:43 Yes, it can do the transfer. Karen Smythe 1:08:46 The advance was already made, so we can afford to forgive it. That probably would hit ultimately, and we can, but that probably would hit our fund balance. We can perform what we need to do to make that happen after Frances Uku 1:08:58 Yes, absolutely. Les Coon, H2O 1:09:00 So what we're looking for is due diligence, legally, yes, to make sure that the language, because legality is all semantics, the to make sure that this is a legal above board. So, I mean, I feel like it's a very clear path forward. That's just from what I'm listening here, which is very good. Well, I like this. I think that's a good plan to if we can convert it. I think that makes Frances Uku 1:09:24 and it doesn't actually even it doesn't preclude if we did decide that outside loan is something, that there was an instrument, and then we can return things to the general solidity. And I'm happy like, I think that's kind think, Les Coon, H2O 1:09:42 confirm our confirming. Feel like there's a very Karen Smythe 1:09:44 nice path to walk here, which, if I understand you correctly, would be to start with passing the Les Coon, H2O 1:09:50 budget, yes, because, you know, there's a balance between expediency and then also making sure that we're doing things with proper procedures, but also doing things that. Make some this seems to make Frances Uku 1:10:02 a lot of us. I was confused about your position. I thought you were saying that we do the subsidy, pass the budget and we can that's not we were saying that the general like converting it to a trance, like making it, Les Coon, H2O 1:10:17 like converting it after we dot the S Cross, the T's legally after we get Frances Uku 1:10:22 But this wouldn't be legal, is what I'm saying. Like, if we have the general fund advance in the budget, and also the reserve and these things are listed in here, referencing the loan, which it is not referencing the advance, you're you're building a budget that is based on, is based on, or is premised, rather on our not paying back by the 31st Karen Smythe 1:10:52 I think you're misinterpreting the way the budget has been put together. The line item is reserve. It's just listed reserve because we don't have the instrument of the loan, but that obviously would be what would be used to begin the payback of the loan. And so it's not, it's not, not acknowledging that the the 205 has to be paid back, Frances Uku 1:11:20 no but you just called it a loan. Karen Smythe 1:11:23 It will become a loan, or it will become forgiven. The forgiveness, the transfer. Again, there are different laws associated with making transfers out of the general fund than they are out of the water fund. And I just we can confirm, confirm that that was not something that I that was not an option that I was given when I asked several different professionals how to handle this. So but what I am saying is that the intention, it shows that there's monies available to begin the payback of the loan. And I called it, I mean, at one point I had it, I said, I called it something else. Frances Uku 1:12:00 Money is available. How the reserve, Karen Smythe 1:12:04 this reserve line is the difference between what we're bringing in and what Frances Uku 1:12:08 we're spending. But that includes, that includes the subsidy that, sorry, excuse me, that includes water. Karen Smythe 1:12:17 Sorry, yes, looking at different Frances Uku 1:12:19 budgets, no, I think so, although, I mean, you, you said that this was the same, except for, Karen Smythe 1:12:25 yes, is that correct numbers on the 2627 budget? Karen Smythe 1:12:35 So, so again, it's, it's semantics. I you know that the reserve doesn't get formally created until it's formally created, we, the board, vote to move monies into a reserve. I use that as a phrase to say this is the difference between what we're going to bring in and what we expect to spend Frances Uku 1:12:57 my and maybe I'll try one more time to state it. Having this on here is already creating the framework of a loan, which, as of today, the resolution that we approved does not reference a loan. When we talk about this here being something that needs to be paid back, and that this reserve will be what we use, potentially to pay it back. This is proposing a structure that does not match what we approved when we signed the resolution, using the GML nine, a all the things that the two that general counsel had written back, providing his legal counsel on. So I'm just saying that this, this is not consistent with that. Maybe it can become but as of today, I don't think it's responsible to pass a budget that that is inconsistent with a previous resolution that we are on the hook for. Karen Smythe 1:13:57 I have to say, I if, if I had a line item. And again, I don't understand why it's not consistent. Should we, maybe some, maybe someone else can, can help, or if you others are ready, ready to make a motion to pass the budget Perry Allen 1:14:15 before we move I can't necessarily clarify that, but before we move forward, if, if we're, if your intention is for unanimous yeses to pass it. And I mean this with total respect, now that we've met a lot about this, I really appreciate in the ways that you have put this all together. And I see, I see how you structured it, and I see in the team, and I believe in a lot of that. And then I just, I just feel that since our operations are becoming tighter, but our reserve is growing higher, we don't have to grow it as much. And that's still going to be, I'm still going to be a stick in the mud about it, if we're working toward yeses. So you. Karen Smythe 1:15:00 One thing to recognize is we can always make a decision later to once we determine how, how the 205 gets resolved, what we'll have couple more months under our belt over over time, we can always make adjustments. So the passing of this budget is not setting it in stone. It's giving us a framework from which we will make adjustments going forward. Frances Uku 1:15:34 Okay, so just you know, prior to that, it seems to me, I so I brought a very simple resolution, capturing the transfer, and I will read it. Karen Smythe 1:15:46 And I'd really prefer you not read it because, Frances Uku 1:15:49 but it's a motion, well, it's a motion, and I will make it. And if there's not a second, that's Karen Smythe 1:15:55 fine, I guess I'm I'm sensitive to and we will discuss later a ways to make our meetings as efficient as possible. Frances Uku 1:16:03 I understand that this is That's why I brought a very short one. There is one operative clause, which is to say that it's a transfer. That's it. There's no this is just things that we've discussed just now that the fund could not sustain itself and needed an advance a big so before you read the motion, Okay, Karen Smythe 1:16:22 are there others who are prepared to turn the advance into a transfer at this meeting with the information that you have, Frances Uku 1:16:32 but they can vote. Karen Smythe 1:16:33 If nobody else who's interested in doing that, then Frances Uku 1:16:37 we don't need to go, No, I make a motion, and then if someone seconds it then it goes to a vote. And if you know that's fine, it's, it's Karen Smythe 1:16:44 just a motion understood, and I'm just trying to make it as efficient as possible. Perry, are you prepared to turn the he Frances Uku 1:16:50 doesn't have to, I mean, he doesn't have that's, that's what a vote is for. No, like, if Karen Smythe 1:16:58 I guess, I'm just trying to to keep things efficient and move forward. Frances Uku 1:17:03 I mean literally, I this is a motion that I'm making. It's a resolution to resolve the general fund advanced the sewer fund, whereas the sewer fund could not cover its $205,430 bond payment in February 2026, and the board authorized a temporary advance from the general fund under GML nine a, resolution seven of 2026 and whereas, by the terms of resolution 720, 26 and GML nine A, the advance must be repaid by May 31 2026 34 days from tonight. Whereas the village attorney confirmed on April 13, 2026 that failure to repay by May 31 may expose individual trustees and officers to personal liability under applicable law. And whereas the treasurer is scheduled to present a repayment plan by May 11, 2026, and the fiscal year 2627 budget must be adopted before May 1, 2026 and whereas converting the advance to a permanent transfer is the simplest resolution, it eliminates the repayment obligation, avoids external borrowing costs, and leaves the sewer fund with an opening balance of approximately $109,000 sufficient to cover the next bond payment without a repeat of this year's crisis. Now therefore, be it resolved by the Board of Trustees of the Village of Red Hook as follows, one the nine a general fund advanced authorized by resolution seven dash, 2026, of 205 up to $205,000 of 430 is hereby converted to a permanent general fund transfer to the sewer fund. A sewer funds repayment obligation is eliminated. The Treasurer shall reconcile the advance and amend the fiscal year, 2025, 2026, budgets accordingly, this resolutions will take effect immediately. And it's a motion that I make, Melkorka Kjarval 1:18:49 which is now on our minutes, which we have not verified, if it's legal and correct and accurate. So I just want that's what Frances Uku 1:18:54 emotion is, and it can be now in our minutes. Yes, that is correct. That's what motions, that's what motions. That's Yep, get it verified, Melkorka Kjarval 1:19:05 then Fran, that's, I like the opportunity when I speak to not being interrupted. Frances Uku 1:19:10 You do that all the time. Perry Allen 1:19:13 So is there a second I want to say that I love this idea, and that's how I feel about it. I absolutely love it. I feel as though there needs to be going once, Karen Smythe 1:19:30 Okay, moving on. Hearing none. Moving on. I would ask if there's a motion to accept the resolution to adopt a 2627 sewer budget of $451 $451,490 so moved. Thank you, Craig. Is there a second? Second? Thank you. Any further discussion? I'll take a roll call vote. Craig Aye for. Perry Allen 1:20:00 Sir. No, no, I'm still feel at that point about the Fran also, no, I'm a yes, but I would like it noted that I do really appreciate very much respect how you've put this together. And that's Frances Uku 1:20:12 that's a genuine you have to make a motion to go in the minutes if you want that on the record. Karen Smythe 1:20:18 That's okay. Okay. Next item on the agenda is so what you have in your packet is an inter municipal agreement for shared services. And these shared services are related to Karen Smythe 1:20:39 highway departments, departments of Public Works. This was interesting, yeah, this is something that's been being worked on by the county as a way to allow we have an intermissible agreement with the town. But this, this, as I understand it, is sort of a blanket. This way you all can work together without having individual IMAS, intermunicipal agreements. This what I wanted to do. This is not for a vote. This is for you all to take a look at. If there's anything in here that you think is, wow, that's weird, or why it's the opportunity for you to say so. And they have not final, finalized it, but this was a, this is, we hope, final. And so it seemed like a good opportunity for you all to take a look at it. I will when they send out the here it is for signature. I'll bring it back for your approval, but I really just wanted to bring it in front of all of you. This Melkorka Kjarval 1:21:49 would supersede Karen Smythe 1:21:51 any kind of Yes. Now you'll note in here it basically, it lays the groundwork and the rules, but we have to agree what what we're going to charge, if we're going to charge and all that's, that's between the municipalities that do that, if we're going to loan equipment, if it's required to go with our operator. That's, that's how we, we choose to function. But this gives the groundwork of the liability and the fact that if one of their employees works here, they're not our employee, they're their employee, and that sort of thing. So it's really, it's really a blanket, a good idea. It's helpful. And this Frances Uku 1:22:32 is just for highway. Karen Smythe 1:22:35 It is a yes, Karen Smythe 1:22:39 yes, personnel, equipment, supplies, resources for highway and public works projects, Frances Uku 1:22:45 and the term is five years, Karen Smythe 1:22:47 I believe. So yeah, but again, it doesn't obligate us to anything. We don't have to ever say yes to either helping out another municipality or asking them to help us. But like we do, and it's very helpful. Melkorka Kjarval 1:23:01 Let's say we did something with Mylan and they had a bad contract, not saying that they do this would cover us in case there was something they didn't. Karen Smythe 1:23:11 So for example, I mean, again, we have an ima with the town, but the second above ground expansion tank at the wastewater treatment plant. The town has a piece of equipment that will allow us to lift it up, and that's what Jake was mentioning. So this would be the kind of thing that would cover us. Wouldn't have to make sure we had every Yeah, that seems fluid. So that was really my, my purpose in putting putting this on the agenda, because it came across my email. The next item on the agenda is meeting procedures. We have guidelines for Village of Red, hook board meetings. And what I'm proposing is that there's just one spot I think that under the general procedures. Frances Uku 1:24:06 So I have, I will let you bring the spot, but I just had a question about, Karen Smythe 1:24:12 yeah, so a couple things. I mean, we've talked, we've talked a fair amount about the the village attorney and access and what have you. And I was having a conversation with him about, how can we structure this in a way that's both efficient for his time, because, you know, we pay for his time, but also there's a way for the whole board to have access and discuss and he had mentioned that another municipality that he works with that he will meet with the board before a meeting to be Available to discuss any agenda item. And so he confirmed that. And because our meetings are on Monday, and we we're not as good as we could be, let's say about having our ducks in a row the Wednesday before, it seemed logical to make it be Monday, you know, the day of earlier in the day, probably in the morning, because I think that's. I know that works. I think for you guys, typically good for me. I don't know about you, Fran, but Frances Uku 1:25:07 I just had a question before we actually get into this, only because these, these are guidelines. We've never actually formally adopted these. So if we is your idea that we would adopt them or that, because, Frances Uku 1:25:29 unless this was we've never adopted this particular this, these guidelines, they would say policy, if they did, Melkorka Kjarval 1:25:39 their guidelines actually in effect now, no, Frances Uku 1:25:42 they are guidelines, so they're not in effect unless we vote on them. They were 22nd Perry Allen 1:25:47 I think they were these ones in the back at the moment, you're referring to the new ones. The new one Karen Smythe 1:25:57 started nearly positively adopted them. Yeah, either, either way, the idea is to use these as a guideline for how we run our meetings. If you would like it to be a formal adoption, we, I mean, we can, you can. I'm sure you'll confirm. Frances Uku 1:26:14 I would only because there are things in here that I you know, they they were guidelines I hadn't pointed out, but there are things that are inconsistent with law, and so if we were going to adopt them, we we've kind of had a gentleman's agreement on on the guidelines, but something, for instance, with the agenda prepared by the Clarke at the direction of the mayor, that's not supported in village law, like the the agenda belongs to the board. So the actually, by law, you don't Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:26:43 even need an agenda, Frances Uku 1:26:44 yes, but if we are having one, which is our practice, yeah. Karen Smythe 1:26:50 So the agenda, the initial agenda, is put together by the Clarke At my direction. You all have the opportunity to add to the agenda, and we have the opportunity to adjust the agenda before the before the meetings, Frances Uku 1:27:02 yes, but it's a board it's a board document. So where, where do you come in before? Like, why don't we have, as we do, it happens, right? Melkorka Kjarval 1:27:13 Sorry, I interrupted you there. Operations, the Clarke's time, sort of, right? Preparing it. Am I wrong? Is that wrong? Perry Allen 1:27:26 That's operations. I For me, unless I'm unless I'm, it feels as though, for the agenda I'm comfortable with the mayor proposes, you know, we need a draft to come from somewhere. You know, I don't think that we should necessarily have a that's where Frances Uku 1:27:43 the draft comes from. Clarke, Perry Allen 1:27:45 but would you feel comfortable knowing what we would all want to discuss? Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:27:49 I don't direct the work of the Frances Uku 1:27:50 Board, but it's not directing the work. You're making an agenda, Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:27:55 the work of the Board, right? This is Karen Smythe 1:27:57 what you're working on. Typically, it's the mayor who receives things like the inter municipal agreement proposal, Frances Uku 1:28:05 things that you are, of course, those are your agenda items. So I'm being directed Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:28:11 by the mayor to put it on the agenda, but Frances Uku 1:28:13 you, but that's not direction. That is a submission from a board member to put something on the agenda. Karen Smythe 1:28:17 So appreciate the fact that you don't want me to direct anything I get that I'd really like to move on. We take it out of take it out of how this goes. We'll continue. Frances Uku 1:28:26 We can table, we can table this one then. But let's, let's Karen Smythe 1:28:29 move on. The rest. Is there anything else in the non proposed the original guidelines that you have an issue with, Melkorka Kjarval 1:28:35 this is the one that's in the lamination, or it's the ones that are not underlined. Karen Smythe 1:28:39 Sorry, right. It's the ones that are. It's same thing. So it's the ones, not underlined ones in black, not red. Frances Uku 1:28:45 We don't have colored copies. So, I mean, I have it on, yeah. Sorry. Again, is, is the idea, then, that we are adopting these as edited because, so, for instance, we have here. I Frances Uku 1:29:11 i feel that this, this tends to cause, this is a board, and I don't think it, it is disrespectful or or saying anything that is not support. I mean, I have the book is here. It's on the first page about the mayor's roles and the Board of Trustees. It's a board and it's not being insulting to the mayor to just so thirsty, please. Perry Allen 1:29:41 And I just mean this genuinely, how would you how would you visualize the agenda being prepared Frances Uku 1:29:47 by the clerk is the things come in whatever order the Clarke deems is appropriate for when I don't know when they came in, or the gravity of them, or what have you. That makes sense. Perry Allen 1:29:59 I. Wonder. I feel as on a level that it's almost done that way. On some level, it's just perhaps, perhaps the mayor has items that she's submitted as well, if that makes sense, because I, you know, I submitted items to the agenda. Do you feel as though there's been a hindrance to submitting things to the agenda? Nope, nope. One of the roles Karen Smythe 1:30:25 of the mayor is to run the meeting, Frances Uku 1:30:27 to chair the meeting, that's right, but not the agenda. Karen Smythe 1:30:30 So it would be logical for the person running the meeting to make the order of the agenda items. I am also often as mayor, privy to items that you all get copied on initially, because most people will send things to the mayor first, of course, and therefore it makes sense for me to have some role in creating the agenda that is then added to and adjusted by all of you. I see why we all need to do this by committee. I think we can do this in a here's an agenda, and you all have the opportunity to add and adjust. Melkorka Kjarval 1:31:03 I think what I I find interesting is you want a law that says Karen is, is, that's her power. But this is an agreement we're making as a board right there. We're all comfortable with her creating it, right? We're all agreeing to that. That's the that's the point of these, these things, right? You're saying that you want it to be a power that's granted to her, but I think we're trying to decide whether that's a power that we want to grant her as a board, as a group, Yeah, but why? Frances Uku 1:31:31 Why? Why do we need it like if? Are we saying that that Jen could not do the role that Melkorka Kjarval 1:31:37 Jen yes, we're definitely saying that Jen does not have the insights that Karen does to the operational things that would come before the board. So it makes sense that she would know things and and give it to Jen. Jen has a lot of stuff on her plate. I mean, I Frances Uku 1:31:50 understand. I'm not. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:31:53 I shouldn't insert, but you're, I think you're getting stuck on semantics of that's Frances Uku 1:31:59 funny that now I'm getting stuck on semantics that's often, no, no, I'm not. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:32:02 I'm not being but that you do you want it to say that it that the agenda that Frances Uku 1:32:09 there's, it's just the it's just prepared by the Clarke and how things get in, Karen Smythe 1:32:15 and that's not how it actually works. So we can say that, but that's not how it works. I guess we can eliminate that whole sentence, if that would allow us to move on. Okay, we'll just get rid of that. Speaker 1 1:32:29 Okay, so just be the mayor or any trustee may have any board Frances Uku 1:32:32 member, because that's what we all are, the Karen Smythe 1:32:35 mayor, any trustee, that is how we are defined. Let's move on. Is there anything else in the non underlined part that anyone would like to make a comment on? Frances Uku 1:32:49 I had a question as to why, in their entirety, is this struck? Oh, sorry. Second, second from the top. Karen Smythe 1:33:00 It seemed a little redundant and and it the all motions must be recorded that that just clarifying what it is and not adding adding extra, that may be confusing. Frances Uku 1:33:15 Okay, that doesn't, I mean, it was there, so I was just curious about why it's coming out. Does that then mean that, that this will be recorded, Karen Smythe 1:33:25 and that it just was, to me, it was clear it's redundant by saying in its entirety, emotional motion Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:33:33 will be recorded. Yeah, by law, I have to record it all. Karen Smythe 1:33:36 So anything else? All right, so the items that I'm proposing that we add, one is that the this is and this is really more just acknowledging that this would give the board an opportunity for an hour on the day of the meeting. And again, I've added subject to his availability, because obviously we're not the only municipality that he that he covers that would give everyone an opportunity, primarily, to ask about the agenda items, but obviously wanting to leave it a little flexible if there's extra time folks can ask. Melkorka Kjarval 1:34:11 So someone could ask about, like the sewer fund transfer in that meeting. Yeah, we could have known now recognize that Karen Smythe 1:34:18 there may be times that he may need to do a little research so may not have now he will also have the agenda in advance and whatever resolutions we have, so that he will have had a chance to look and see, presumably, what what we would be asking about. The other item, I think, is, is recognizing that our last meeting went very long. And I think it's it's it's both hard on all of us, and I also think it's it's not really helpful for the public either, for us to have such lengthy meetings. So I am proposing that we we plan to end our meetings at 10, but giving us the opportunity to continue past if the board votes to do that, but also recognizing that we may have. Lot on the agenda that at nine, the board would review and prioritize the remaining agenda items that Perry Allen 1:35:06 also seems like good operations to me. Karen Smythe 1:35:08 And then the other items under agenda, the Clarke will identify the source or author of any resolution on the agenda, any prepared statements. Frances Uku 1:35:19 Sorry, I was going to, rather than having designating the Clarke as I would like to move that going forward, when we have resolutions before the board that they identify the drafter as well as any tools or sources used in preparing the resolution, there's something that I, you know, I full disclosure when I bring a resolution, how what sources I used, and what assistance I received, what tools I used. So I feel like just going forward, I would that's something that would make me feel very happy if we could include that on any resolutions that we bring, Melkorka Kjarval 1:36:01 what kind of tools do you mean? Frances Uku 1:36:04 I mean whatever, whatever like document, no, if you know, if you use Google search, even to get I mean, if you whatever it is that you used to to to as day or handbook, OSC whatever it is that you use for writing, kind of, kind of, so let me Karen Smythe 1:36:28 distinguish this is for the this is on the agenda. I think what you're referring to is on the resolution. So that would come under the next section, because this section is on agenda. So on the agenda would identify who Thank you, the source or author of a resolution. So, for example, the inter municipal agreement for shared services, I would indicate that is from the county. Any prepared statement should ideally be added to the agenda in advance to allow for constructive board discussion. And that's really, you know, if someone is going to spend the time to come up with a prepared statement, it's the idea of our meeting together is to be a deliberative body where we discuss and we debate. And so when you're handed or read something, it's hard to react to that and have a discussion because you haven't had it in advance. Mayor, the mayor may request the attendance of any village employee who may have relevant facts or information relating to an agenda, an item on the agenda. Frances Uku 1:37:31 Sorry, this is just another one of those. Another one of those. Is there any mechanism that we can come to and say we're working on something, we're working on sewer, we're working on zoning. Is there any mechanism for us to agree by majority that we would like this expert to come in, or that we would like this consultant's opinion only because it's like, for instance, in the time of Victoria polidoros time with us, those are billable hours. And you know it, it seemed useful that you know that she was there, but, or even less, today, he was in and out. So maybe, maybe we got a freebie for that. But I would think, in the spirit of collegiality, collaboration, all of that, that it would be nice if we had some way of deciding, you know, this is this thing that we're working on, on the agenda, let's pull this person in, or let's, you know, it's just a no. Karen Smythe 1:38:41 I think it's, I think it's a suggestion. It's a good question. I'm just in thinking about how that would actually function in terms of if, if the idea is that the board would vote on that prior to an agenda item. That makes it really tricky, because obviously the person has to and so whether or not it would be, you know that any board member may request that, and that I would facilitate that or because obviously they're not always available. Frances Uku 1:39:15 I had a suggestion about that, because I know we're all very conscious of OML when we do when we email, and, you know, when we have group emails, and being careful about that. But this would seem to me and maybe Jen can confirm that this would be the kind of thing that we can have, not a discussion, but we can talk about consultants that we might want to bring in for a particular agenda item. Maybe if Mel Corker were bringing something about this and said, you know, what do you guys think? Shall we, you know? And it's just, you know, just trying Karen Smythe 1:39:51 to think about how it would work in practice. I mean, I think conceptually we could, as discussing a project, we could say there'd be times when, you know. When something's at a certain point that it would make sense. I'm just not quite sure how that how that would I Frances Uku 1:40:06 would have liked, for instance, with this, I would have liked to give you what you would have needed to be comfortable, and if that was getting it in the hands of Kyle, even though what I put there was based on his email responses to us, it's just, I don't love conflict. I actually want to get everybody, like, on the same page and feeling good about decisions that we make. I don't love voting, no, but I I always try to, or my hope is that, I mean, unanimous votes are great. That's just how I feel. So if there's ways that we can get the expertise that we need for everyone to feel comfortable that their ideas are being supported or being, you know, given a fair shake, that's that's all I think it would be if we could do that kind of thing by email and then have the to match. But it is very good that we have this potential opportunity with the village attorney. So I think that already gets us, like going back and forth and Melkorka Kjarval 1:41:05 having arguments in both, no, I just saying, I feel like I could see that escalating in an email back and forth. You know, I don't want someone I do. I think I would need legal Okay, confirmation of anything. Karen Smythe 1:41:20 Decisions made, Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:41:20 decisions made, because in this case, it could cause a bill to the village. And I think when you spend funds, a bill to the village, right? So if like we have, like our say, our engineer comes in that may not be within his retainer, right? So he may send us a bill for that attendance, you're causing money to be spent. And if you're deliberating that in an email, you've just, I think that I understand what you're Frances Uku 1:41:49 saying, but for something like Victoria, Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:41:50 like lost money, yes, money. But so that couldn't have been done an email, Frances Uku 1:41:55 I understand, but it was done. Is what? Right, right? But I that Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:41:59 that's you asked me about. It means on the email. And I they really, they shy away from anything. Frances Uku 1:42:04 No, no, I get it very good. Anyway, it was something I threw out. It wasn't, I think Karen Smythe 1:42:09 it's an, I think it's an important discussion that we should have. And maybe it's not something that falls under the guidelines for the meeting, sure, and so I think it's something that we can, we can discuss. As it went further. I mean, I I asked Victoria to be at our meeting because you had indicated that the resolution that we passed was not legal, and so I felt it was important that Victoria share from from Frances Uku 1:42:31 our I'm sorry to interrupt you just on that, because that was never an assertion I made. It was not that it was not legal. And she herself confirmed, if you look at the minutes, she confirmed that the things I'd listed in the resolution I brought were nice to have. She didn't have them in there. But it does not mean one that I accused or I claimed, that the instrument by which we adopted the resolution was not legal. So I just want to be on the record about that. Karen Smythe 1:43:00 Okay, so we're now on to resolutions, and it starts, and it starts with a statement of intent should be listed prior to the body of any resolution. The board will discuss and agree on the intent prior to reviewing and voting on the resolution. Frances Uku 1:43:13 Sorry, I don't understand what Karen Smythe 1:43:15 what the statement that means. And I think we had a good example earlier, was to have a discussion of what the intent of a resolution is, what are we trying to accomplish with the resolution prior to having the resolution be read? Because there are certain resolutions. That's one of the things that led to extra time in our meeting last our last meeting. And I think because there are times when a resolution is brought forth that is sometimes intended to be a discussion item. I'd like to make it be a discussion item before we get into the details of the resolution, because if the discussion item or the intent isn't something that the board wants to proceed with, then then there's no need to go into the details of the resolution. Frances Uku 1:43:59 I guess Mike, just this is an attempt to be compliant with what is. So I don't understand what a statement of intent is, so that I can, if I bring forth something, I am meeting this expectation. So what, what does that mean? Or is it a statement when we because the title is Karen Smythe 1:44:19 there, right? So what's the purpose? Were you trying to accommodate Frances Uku 1:44:22 that's different from the title of the resolution? How? What would it? Karen Smythe 1:44:27 Well, so for example, we'll take, because this is coming up, it's a video conferencing. The goal that I see mean right now we make, we make our board meetings, and most of our special meetings are available to attend via zoom, our workshop is not but the others are. The goal, as I understand it, from your your perspective, Fran is that you want people to be able to click on a link on an agenda item without having to request that link in advance, because we are currently, currently will take the board meeting. People now can join the meeting via zoom, but all they have to do is just shoot a quick email or make a call and say, send me the link. And your goal is to make that not to Frances Uku 1:45:11 remove a potential barrier. Karen Smythe 1:45:12 Yeah, and so that that's the goal. And so I think a discussion around is that a goal that we want to drill down to make happen, or, because we have so few people who actually take advantage of zoom, that this may not be, you know, this may not be something that that particular aspect of the goal may not be considered something that needs to be addressed in a resolution. Frances Uku 1:45:40 So can we agree that that's, that's what specifically, if we're talking specifically about resolutions, that's, that's what the recitals are, that's what the whereas causes, the discussion of what it is that we're trying to Karen Smythe 1:45:51 and one of the things that it for me is many there are whereas is that I would discuss. If the goal of the resolution was something the board wanted to proceed with, if they didn't, then it's not worth going into the detail of the whereases Melkorka Kjarval 1:46:12 Swift for board time efficiency, right? Yes, okay, so five hours, right? It was a very long meeting, and there was a lot of resolutions that were not passed, some of them because they weren't moved. We wanted to talk about more, and we we, and some of them, we were not prepared to go down those goals, right? So this is the idea of, how can we be efficient with our time? Frances Uku 1:46:36 Understood, I guess Melkorka Kjarval 1:46:37 in public interest. I'm sorry, go ahead. Frances Uku 1:46:39 No, it's okay. I just wanted to know, because this, in my mind, this So, speaking specifically about the video conferencing, since we we brought it up, I'm trying to figure out, how can I be, how can I meet the expectations of that line? So what? Sorry, so, so you brought up the discussion thing. But my, my, I guess, sorry, what is that? What is the I'm just looking what the the statement of intent. The Statement of Intent is something that is in the whereas is that I have there. So you had just mentioned about, about getting the link in advance, and in there, it says that Karen Smythe 1:47:22 what I'm trying to do is to eliminate going through the line by line detail of the warehouses, and bring that to the top and say the intent of this is to remove all barriers, to allow for any and everyone to come in via zoom on every meeting we have. That would be a statement of goal or intent or purpose, and then we have that discussion, and then we can go into the details of because, because, I will say there are some inaccuracies in some of the whereases, and I don't know that it's worth even talking about it if we're not in agreement that we want to go in that direction. Frances Uku 1:47:58 Okay, so we're finishing this, and then, because that's this Karen Smythe 1:48:03 is me putting it forward again as an attempt to make our meetings as efficient as possible, which I think is both in our interest. But are Perry Allen 1:48:13 you envisioning it being a written statement or just a verbal statement? So were the resolutions presented? Frances Uku 1:48:19 So what would it be, in the case of the county, of the resolution that we just did with the county, like we just talked about the county's resolution, what would the what would the statement there be? It says, interview. It could be a cover sheet. What cover sheet? Because they did Karen Smythe 1:48:35 it, but it would have to be something like, I mean, the pull out from in there that say, the opportunity create a basis for municipalities working Les Coon, H2O 1:48:49 it's like the legislative version of an abstract in a scientific I don't have a Problem with reading this. It gave me pause that I mean, and again, I'm still getting used to the parliamentary procedure, but I think individual board members, you know, introducing resolutions. I think maybe a way of having things heard or put on the record that might be more important to one than it is to all. And so there may be times where the board might prefer a resolution not be read, but maybe that is in the best interests of a narrow band of people that have spoken to a particular member of the board. In other words, if there's a usefulness to a resolution being read, even if it's not going to pass by a stumble chance in hell. I don't want to foreclose on that or kneecap the ability of an individual board member to read something, but I do, and I'm splitting hairs, but I do like the idea of having an abstract partially because of my experience professionally, but also. So I think that's an interesting thing. Like the thing with the county to have a, like, a, I forget what they call in corporate places, but like, a white paper, you know, like that one, like this is what this is about. Yeah, it's the elevator pitch, right? The executive summary, it's a paragraph or two liner, like this is what this is. So I like that. I don't love the idea of deliberating on that before getting the opportunity to put something in the record as a resolution. Karen Smythe 1:50:26 The only hitch that I make to that, though, is then we run the risk of, if everybody says, Well, this is my way of getting something on the record, even if the rest of the board isn't on board, then we have a plethora of resolutions that then get read out in the meeting, which then leads us to have five hour meetings, right? And so that was, it's really more finding a way to hone in on the business of the board that the board, as a board, decides is the Les Coon, H2O 1:50:54 important thing. I think it's, I think it's a tricky gray area. And again, it's I keep. It keeps for me, it keeps coming up the balance between expedience and attention to order. Frances Uku 1:51:08 So can I make a suggestion to that point? Then, is that only because, and this is something that I brought up in in an email that I'd sent, is that the way I work on resolutions, is I put in the time beforehand, so that when it comes to you all you as as colleagues, as fellow board members, have to do is, and as you started, you said there are some in consistencies or inaccuracies. My hope is that we that, because I provided it in advance, you would have read and identified where exactly those things are, so I can either strike them or edit them, and then I don't have to read those. Then we just go on to the to the operatives, if it's something that we are just not even interested in. That's useful, that's useful for me to know as well. I just I spend a lot of time on these. And so the idea then that it would make you feel more comfortable that I do more work presenting an abstract or it just Karen Smythe 1:52:15 seems to rather Yeah, is that you focus on the executive summary that we then have a discussion as a board as to whether or not that is something that is worthy of the extra work that you would then put in to create a resolution. What I you know, I hear you saying you put in a lot of work into the would you Frances Uku 1:52:33 prefer motions then? Karen Smythe 1:52:34 Would you promotions and resolutions are effectively Frances Uku 1:52:37 the same thing, absolutely, you need a motion to effect a resolution. But I just mean, does this seem to Fran that Karen Smythe 1:52:43 emotion is emotion? A resolution is a resolution? No, I just meant that they're effectively the same thing. Frances Uku 1:52:50 Yeah, I just meant that a resolution is a piece of paper. Until you move it a motion, you don't have to have it formally. I'm just trying to get to whatever. What makes everyone the most comfortable? You've often Karen Smythe 1:53:01 said that you put your documents together as discussion items, and so I'm trying to get to the place where it becomes a discussion item rather than a full formal document that that is presented as finished. So I guess I'm trying to get to the discussion part before we get into the formal detail of the of the document, yeah, Frances Uku 1:53:26 no, no, no, no, no. Melkorka Kjarval 1:53:27 These are, you know, an agreement between the board. We can change it any meeting, so we could adopt them, see how they work, change them later, like this is, is this between us as a board, how we want to function and how we feel it works. I feel like the five hour meeting did not work. I did not think that was a success for the public. I felt like it was too long. By the end, I felt very grumpy. So I like the idea of trying this, but I also, you know, yeah, Les Coon, H2O 1:53:55 sorry, I don't mean to be chomping at the bit. Terrible. You can't have a normal kind conversation one family. Nobody can. I think the word that's giving me queasiness is the word agree. I think if we can, if we can articulate, or as a group, understand, some communal understanding of what's the intent of the resolution. I feel like there's value there, and I do feel like that could make things a bit more efficient. Think getting us to agree on the intent of resolution before voting on the resolution feels like Karen Smythe 1:54:38 that might be like. So how about as they say? This is also I'm putting it on paper as I see it, and this is for discussion. So what if the board will discuss the intent prior to reviewing? Les Coon, H2O 1:54:51 That's exactly yeah, I see. I feel infinitely more comfortable with that. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 1:54:55 Now I interject real quickly. It looks like we did not adopt these. They were just a. The board in the minutes discuss the draft guidelines. So these are, again, draft guidelines being Karen Smythe 1:55:08 being discussed, being discussed and drafted. Perry Allen 1:55:12 And I like the thought that maybe you said this, that this all can be contingent on our votes as well, if we find as though to the point of, there, there's a if things need to be put on the record through a resolution, but Aren't they being inhibited by this process? Then let's bring that up and talk about it. I think if this is what, this is how we move forward, I think striking. I agree. Les Coon, H2O 1:55:38 It just makes me feel a bit more comfortable that we're not demanding anything of, you know, like, Oh, now we all now we all agree what this means, you know, it's like, okay, well, it's this. I mean, there's and there may be times, Karen Smythe 1:55:51 there may be times when we do decide if we're going to vote, or we could have a motion to continue, or to vote on the resolution, or we could decide that we're going to move on or table it, or this gives the opening to have that discussion. Melkorka Kjarval 1:56:05 But are we agreeing that all resolutions should be read full into the record? Do we as a board think that is a useful piece of our time? Frances Uku 1:56:14 My preference would actually be to not. So then if we because these are on the agenda in advance, as requested, as agreed by all of us, as to when we need to have them in for everyone to be able to take a look, I would need to read the recitals. If everybody has had a chance to weigh in on what they think this one. I don't think we need that. I don't think we did it. Then we can just move into the into the therefore, be it results, or we can say, You know what, we just move this. We'll do this, and we don't need if the issue is with the formality, we don't like formality, then let's say that. But this is just a way. I would have thought that this is actually more efficient, because then I don't have to go, we don't have to have the long conversation on each point, if everyone has read in advance and pointed out I don't like this thing, or we could say this better, or whatever, then all it is is passing that and we're moving on. Karen Smythe 1:57:09 And the commenting or I don't like this is that in a meeting? Yeah, okay, I wasn't clear whether you were expecting that in an email Karen Smythe 1:57:20 from No, no, no, that's here. All right, just checking. Karen Smythe 1:57:23 All right. Well, I guess what I'd like to recommend, because the page two is just the order of business, and we have the opportunity to change that based on the acceptance of the agenda. So I would. So what we've done here is, for the paper that you have, we've struck out the first line of the first bullet under agenda, and we've taken out the words and agree on and the bottom line, and otherwise it is as as printed. You're good with that, you'll make a motion, the motion to accept these guidelines. Thank you. Second, I'll second without the red, Melkorka Kjarval 1:58:12 the red will be dropped. No, ready in there? Yeah, it'll be made black, but it is, that is the motion was accepted with that, with the revisions. Yes, thank you. Karen Smythe 1:58:24 Okay, all in favor. Frances Uku 1:58:28 Sorry, I just hadn't followed all of the Yeah. I Karen Smythe 1:58:42 The next item on the agenda is, I just put the land use study that we had discussed it at the last meeting, as I understood it, the way it was left was the two new board members. The main issue was the historical properties. And what Fran was proposing is taking out the Appendix for the in the land use study. But as and as Victoria had clarified that to do that, that would be changing the document, which would require going through the process. And so I just put it on the agenda to see if any further action, as it relates to, Frances Uku 1:59:24 I think someone's this was put here. I think these are someone else's notes. I think that was okay. Sorry, I'm I don't have a copy of it right now. Unfortunately, because I didn't, I didn't put it on the agenda, so I didn't know what the what the item was. But my proposal actually was to deactivate the appendix. The appendix is fine to stay there if the board decides that we would like to leave it there. The point of having it in a in the operative terms of the resolution, is to change it so that the the text in the appendix doesn't. Carry the same weight. So in one of the issues was that maybe not issues in the mind, in the eyes of some but one of the what we adopted, has a table in which we list historic resources. And I wish I had it here. I would give you a copy, but I took a look at it. Okay, so there's a table that is describing a number of historic resources in the study area. And so we had, we had drafted the table such that the narrative text that was previously in there, in particular, a 1500 word section about one property. All of the properties went into the appendix. My point that I brought up with Victoria when she was here was that if the appendix carries the same weight as all of the other of the main body of the land use study, someone can bring that against the village and say, well, this, I don't have it. But, yeah, yeah, I could also pull it up here. Karen Smythe 2:01:10 But I mean, just to, I mean again, just to clarify, we discussed this at our meeting, you know, two weeks ago, and we had Victoria here so she could share. The board had previously approved the land use study, as with the appendix included, and Fran put forth a new resolution to make a change. And so really, the question was for you two to have an opportunity, should you choose to have a thought as to whether or not you wanted to redo the land use study, or if you were fine with leaving it the way it was Frances Uku 2:01:46 and it wouldn't be redoing the land use study. Les Coon, H2O 2:01:48 Well, my impression after that meeting was that it, I hear the concern about it being a liability in some Frances Uku 2:01:59 way, which the lawyer, actually, General Counsel, had also said, Les Coon, H2O 2:02:04 My understanding was that it doesn't hold the same weight as like a historical register or some of the other things that somebody might use. So I felt comfortable with, you know, what we have, rather than redoing things? Does that send us back to the drawing board? And that's a lot Karen Smythe 2:02:21 of extra. It would have Karen Smythe 2:02:23 to go through the process, right? It wouldn't to your point. Fran, it wouldn't redo, but we would have to redo the process. Perry Allen 2:02:32 My interpretation, looking back at it, was that any I had to speak flippantly, but any land use claims that I think could be used against it. I would almost support because there'd be this Historic Register, you know, and people would try to say, don't develop things, let's keep it historical. And I'd love that. So that kind of on a flippant level, sort of, I'm okay with that. But I felt that that if we as it stands, I think is an acceptable document. I think if the discussion is that there were substantive things missing, that it needed to be redone, that would be a conversation, but that, I guess, but I don't feel the need to reopen it for this particular Melkorka Kjarval 2:03:22 thing. Didn't mean to discover Fran. Frances Uku 2:03:24 I was just You said, That's okay. It's okay. It wasn't my I'm happy to you know this was, it was useful information to have from Victoria, and you know, in in future, I may bring the case to make back to you all, but I really, I feel that it's worth just not removing, just de operatizing The appendix, just because someone gets clever with AI and suddenly they can bring, they can use that. And the planning board there. I mean, they have, there are a lot of professional people with a lot of experience on the planning board. But ultimately they are amateurs like us, and they have to interpret things. And someone with, you know, deep pockets, comes in and says, Well, this thing says this, it must mean that this is very, very anyway. Karen Smythe 2:04:15 It is the zoning amendment that is the law that the Frances Uku 2:04:23 it's a it's a legal document, also the comprehensive plan moving on Karen Smythe 2:04:28 the next item on the agenda in the reorganization resolution that we had at our last meeting, it included reference professional training. But I pulled it I pulled it out because I wanted to clarify. We've had several discussions on professional training and the payment of fees, and so I wanted to make it clear. And so I pulled it out to just have and to take some time to do a separate i. Resolution interest of being efficient. I just want to clarify that in the general fund budget that we passed for the coming year, we have $2,000 for trustee training. We have $2,000 for village staff training, planning, zoning happens within a particular code that has other things in it, same with the court and same with the DPW. So I just wanted to reference those, because what basically what we're doing is authorizing the use of taxpayer funds for the attendance at these at these meetings, it's not authorizing one to go. It is saying that it is possible for village funds to be paid to be used for attendance. And so the under the resolved portion, it starts with reimbursing mileage for professional training. Frances Uku 2:06:06 So sorry, just before we go to the resolve, since we're still in the in the clauses there, because I had a question about that, you just referred to the general fund budget that we did approve. So we approve the budget, but there's, there's no, there's nowhere specifically that we say 2000 for trustees, there's a line item that refers to expenses for trustees, and it's a 10, 10.4, but I don't have the exact full spelling, so I want to float something just before you get even closer, because I Frances Uku 2:06:44 um, the I feel that these two whereas is just as an example, if we were talking about fall trading, which I think that is, I think is very important for new trustees, what I would move is that we actually just on a case by case basis, as trustees, decide who's going to what and how that can be covered. This information that you bring back from nicom, from this is all stuff that I get, budget, fiscal oversight, handbooks, the suit these nicom is very, very important. We are amateur? Well, maybe I'll speak for myself. I'm an amateur, but I've had to get very facile very quickly with municipal finance, with land use, you know, zoning law, there's a lot that we do, and the easiest and cheapest way for the taxpayer is to send trustees to these conferences. And so I don't feel that, that there is any point like restricting there are only so many of them. I just think we should write it. We should say Craig, and if you are able to go, you should go, and we need to. And I was in my previous resolution, maybe even in this one. I don't have it here today, if we're not happy to talk about how we can have an affirmative approach to training as opposed to a limiting and you know, it's so. For instance, if we did say $2,000 for training and divided by four, this would not allow Craig or anybody who wanted to go to fall trade, I don't need to go to fall training again. I do think it's useful. Based on what I learned at legislative meeting, there is a lot that you can bring back from that. I would move that whoever wishes to go to, I would move that I go to winter legislative they should go to, they should go to fall training. If there's anything Mel Clarke would like to go to, this is just something we should do. It's not, there's it makes no sense to nickel and dime over such value that you bring back to the village. Karen Smythe 2:08:54 So the resolution that you made, I actually put, I did put numbers to it is a budget item, and so if, if the board wants to discuss so sending the two of them, barring getting the they Frances Uku 2:09:09 will get it for the first time, Karen Smythe 2:09:10 not a guaranteed but it's a possibility. So if they don't get it, that's $3,000 right now, we've budgeted 2000 so we would need to decide, as a board, where's that 1000 going to come from if you go to the legislative meeting, in addition to their 3002 55 at least another that's 255 Well, that's for Frances Uku 2:09:29 the registration. Yeah, we didn't pay for my hotel, which you know is, yeah, it's 255 is what that was so funny enough under this I would be the only one who could go to a conference, because if we were talking about 2000 Karen Smythe 2:09:41 to be clear, it doesn't mean you can't go it just means that the village funds would only cover $500 unless the board decided differently, which is the way we had set it up in February, January, that that's what we had discussed. Frances Uku 2:09:56 But that is right, yeah, of course we can talk Melkorka Kjarval 2:09:59 about a budget job. As it goes through, the way it used to be done, we would coordinate, and not everyone will go. Every year was not split four ways. The reason why we had to do that is because people decide to go without having that board discussion first, and that is why we made this the policy that is now in place, and everyone only has X amount, Karen Smythe 2:10:19 but we can, gives us a basis, Frances Uku 2:10:21 and we can change that. There are new people on the board, and my personal view is that this, this is very good. And anyone, when I do go to Congress, I've been to two night homes now. And when you go, they other municipalities, and you know, you say what you want about it, but they beg people to go there. If they're trustee, they need people to go and bring back this information. So we are paid so little that I think if there are people who want to go and are happy to give their time and will very in a very responsible way, we're not saying you stay at some five star hotel and blow a budget if we have a conference attendance policy. Karen Smythe 2:11:01 Just like to clarify two things. One is, as members of nicom, yeah, they have a lot of training that are webinars, and so one can access a lot of really good information. And the people, the key people from nicom, they're all lawyers, and they're there and they, they do them live and they you can ask questions at the end. So going to a conference, I 100% agree. There's an awful lot that you can learn. It is not the only way that you can get training out of nicom. The other is, I am a supporter of training. I think there's a balance, but I am a supporter of training. All I'm asking is, is that we are responsible with the budget, and that if we're going to do it differently, that we acknowledge what that cost is and reflect it in the budget. And again, having put forth the budget, having put it together, there was no discussion about training in the discussion in as we were going through the budget, we passed the budget. So I'm happy to have that conversation. Now, if, if, if, folks would like to make an adjustment to the budget, we can do that, but I think we need to be very clear what it is that we are we are putting forth $4 where is it Frances Uku 2:12:21 going to come from? Okay? So I would say, then I would move that we add $2,000 into state aid, because that is what comes when you go to fall training. If it doesn't Karen Smythe 2:12:30 come in, I'm not prepared to put something in that we don't know we have when we get it. I'm happy to put it in, but I'm not happy to put it in because you don't automatically get it and sure they run out. And if Frances Uku 2:12:44 yes, but then Karen Smythe 2:12:47 you spend the budget that you've accounted for a grant that you don't know you have Frances Uku 2:12:50 yet, yeah, so then it comes out of somewhere else. That's if we make Karen Smythe 2:12:55 my request, is that we determine what that is. Now, okay, Frances Uku 2:12:59 so if we bumped up the training, the trustee thing from two to four. That's something we can do if we decide that that is training, that if training is important, that Karen Smythe 2:13:08 that's what and where and where does that extra What are you going to reduce by 2000 you can Frances Uku 2:13:13 find it in one of the other lines. This is a proposal, though. There's a lot of unallocated So, for instance, we have I worked very hard. I'm not saying I'm not making any Karen Smythe 2:13:24 so to find to but what you're saying is, we'll just find the 2000 I'm asking you to be very specific as to where you think that 2000 might come from. Frances Uku 2:13:35 Digital Communications is one that is very underused, and historically, so that's a line that is very underutilized. And so if we were taking even 1000 it's just, it's just what, okay, so, for instance, this, we don't need to do an adjustment, because the year is almost over, but we had me, I got the $1,000 which is in state aid, that is, you know, and if you for what good? Yeah, the Karen Smythe 2:13:59 budget line item for for trustee training, is now 3000 Frances Uku 2:14:03 I did not see that. Okay, so it's not 2000 then it's Karen Smythe 2:14:09 3000 No, next year, it's 2000 this is for next year. Frances Uku 2:14:14 I just, it's just a it's just a pitch. I'm but one board member. But I, I think it's valuable. I think it's worth putting in three or more just as we determine what what the costs are. But as I say, Melkorka Kjarval 2:14:28 there's no police in here, no police training. Is that a separate line item, or is Karen Smythe 2:14:32 that it's a separate line item? I mean, I Melkorka Kjarval 2:14:35 know it is. I'm sorry, most of Karen Smythe 2:14:37 the training that they do, so sorry. Frances Uku 2:14:39 I just need to cancel. Well, Karen Smythe 2:14:40 it's required, but also there are various ways where they get training where we don't pay for the training, we're just paying for their time, so it ends up showing up in the payroll line, as opposed to in a separate training line. Do we need to Melkorka Kjarval 2:14:54 reference that the police are not included, but they do get the only reason why they're Karen Smythe 2:14:58 not referenced is. Because the training that we're talking about is not police training, okay, the training that we're referencing here, Melkorka Kjarval 2:15:07 yeah, I know it's most all other staff Karen Smythe 2:15:11 well, and the only reason why the other staff is because we have Karen Smythe 2:15:20 nicoms public work training school. And now I put in, I put in the the planning and, well, because Planning and Zoning is in here court, I could probably take out, because it's not referenced. Karen Smythe 2:15:42 I So Fran, your issue is, you think that we should have put more into the line item for trustee training. I'm going off the budget that we all just passed, and the motion that was the policy that the board agreed to of splitting it by four. What it says? However, if someone wants to spend more than that, they just have to bring it to the Board for discussion. So it doesn't mean that there isn't an opportunity for additional training, bonds how the money is spent. This just gives us a process for doing that. And so in the resolution, it's acknowledging what the reimbursement rate is for mileage. Melkorka Kjarval 2:16:26 And historically, we did use to coordinate, and it worked out fine, and we would all communicate before people made booked it, because that's was so that there wasn't always, it wasn't always equal. Every year there would be someone, yeah, it was never equal. I'm just saying that that Frances Uku 2:16:44 is, was that not something that was that not something that, like, was there a decision made to not because, I mean, I looked at historically in that line, it just Kim was like, that's if, if you look at the of who goes, you know, so it's I was but then Melkorka Kjarval 2:17:04 I got pregnant, and then I was nursing and bringing a baby and having childcare was not a thing. So I went to two different conferences. Karen Smythe 2:17:14 I mean, the way it worked is that anyone who was interested, frankly, they reached out to me and said, Hey, I want to go to this conference. And nobody else had wanted, or I reached out or Melkorka Kjarval 2:17:28 checked with everybody. I mean, Karen Smythe 2:17:29 and, and, and they went. And it was great again. Frances Uku 2:17:35 We come, we just come back to the issue of the fundamental difference in understanding when we do the reorg, this is what we decide as a board, is what we are going to be. We're affirming that this training is but then we come back to the mayor, Mayor approves, or the mayor, like we Melkorka Kjarval 2:17:57 all proven Karen Smythe 2:17:59 about, there is a there's a form that that we've now created that people can fill out. Frances Uku 2:18:05 Okay, just one more question. Then, is there, is there a reason we need to do this one tonight? No, okay, can I please move to table only because I just, I would like more time to present the case for for more training and more. Just to be Karen Smythe 2:18:23 clear, from my standpoint, I think training is terrific. From my standpoint, you didn't need to make that case. What you need to make is to me and I, you know, I'm is what? Because we have to balance like with every Sure. Sure, if we spend more on training, we share less on something else. Sure and conceptually, the digital communication is placed where we have used in the past to do some extra work on our on our website. We haven't always taken advantage of that. If we, as a board say we don't want to have the money available, should we choose to do some work on our website, for example, or other types of communication, then that's fine. That's a board decision. This is why we go through a budget process. So happy to happy to have that discussion. To me, it is more about if we're going to spend more on training, what is it we're going to spend less? So others can Melkorka Kjarval 2:19:17 happy to talk about the digital communications and upcoming costs that we're anticipating with Karen Smythe 2:19:24 new regulations, new regulations, accessibility, there's lots of Frances Uku 2:19:31 so only, only because you said that there isn't a particular pressing and we are at nine, I would move to table This and come back to it. That's that needs a second. Obviously, I'm happy to Second. Motion to Table. Table, Speaker 2 2:19:56 I got your three. Karen Smythe 2:20:00 Fran, all right, the next item on the agenda, Frances Uku 2:20:10 three, right, yeah, this, this one is just the zoom, Karen Smythe 2:20:17 the zoom. So I would like to we've got a lot of me, various different documents. Frances Uku 2:20:23 No, it's just, we don't even, I can give you the brief, Jen, this is something Jen, Craig and I were working on. It's just all it is is zoom meetings. I mean, Zoom access for all meetings, info sessions, workshops, all of that. It's just for the public. We, you know, we have, we need engagement. People are asking for engagement. This is just one way. So I just, Karen Smythe 2:20:49 I just have a counter to that. Okay, when I became mayor, my first meeting was June of 2021, and we were just coming out of that was actually the first meeting that was in person. We came back together in person. We kept the video conferencing available the Zoom Well, at that time, it was Ring Central, and we are not required to provide video conferencing to the public unless we are using it for extraordinary circumstances for a board member, but we have kept it for almost five years now. And I would say in five years, we've had maybe on a regular board meeting, maybe a total of 10 people over five years. So I am all for making meetings available and accessible to the public. I happen to like this format as an alternative, so that every meeting we're having is not up there, but it Frances Uku 2:21:55 doesn't have to be up there. We understood, Karen Smythe 2:21:57 but we either, in order to do it, we either need to put a computer there, or we need to buy a piece of equipment that is a camera that sort of shows the whole room, or we're all sitting in front of computers. So there's some there's some sort of details to work out as to how that would work. All of our info sessions have been available by zoom. Not all of them have been available for public comment. Because, depending on what the what the setup is, it can be hard to coordinate allowing people to make a public comment. For example, when one of our sewer information meetings we had, we probably we had, we were probably pushing 80 people in here, and we probably had 15 on on Zoom, and it would have been very difficult to coordinate, allowing people on Zoom to ask questions. It doesn't mean that we can't look to make that easy the other so I, you know, I, I'm happy to continue with the Zoom I will say we had for three years, we had a high school intern who facilitated the meeting. And one of the things about zoom bombers is you got to be paying attention. Well, we didn't need to, because we didn't have the issue until very recently, and so that's why, after the third High School intern. I didn't really work hard to get another one, I'm sure interesting for them to sit through a whole bunch of years worth of meetings, but they were very polite about it. One of them stayed in touch and said that she learned a lot, which was very kind of her, Speaker 1 2:23:35 but never wants to go into government. Karen Smythe 2:23:39 And so I think I, you know, to me, I think having it available is a good thing. And I'm a little concerned about saying it should be available fully with comments available for every meeting, because I think there's some some things that we need to to work out in terms of how that would what it would look like, where it would go, would Frances Uku 2:24:01 you know the public comment is just for the period, just like in real life when we would have public comment, so it's not the entirety of the meeting, and you don't have to allow it for info sessions or things where there's less moderation. It's really as Craig Jen and I were discussing, and is listed in the in the in the guide, because I made the document, so I put it there for your and this, this was Craig's view. And I won't quote you very although I could pull it up and quote you verbatim, but with the settings, it's, it's virtually bomb proof. We have an account. This is not proposing, Perry Allen 2:24:40 hmm, yeah, this is not a great document in terms of, you know, if we move forward in this way, it's right here for us, but it's inaccurate, right? Melkorka Kjarval 2:24:49 Which one, this one that the the it says that set to host only that was, it was right, and it was, I mean, it's default. Set to host only. It was hacked. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:25:03 I can't, I can't, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I mean, it's default set to host only. You would have to have gone and switched it over. Yeah, I don't, I don't recall ever switching it over. And that's the issue. Is the hacking is the issue. Karen Smythe 2:25:17 But I think, but I think that the point that you've got in here is that it's easy to, you know, you can, you can kick somebody out quickly. The issue is you have to have somebody who's paying attention. And so someone has to be the host. Jen is taking the minutes, and I'm running the meeting. May not we it's it has worked to be on my computer, and I see someone in the waiting room. I let them in because we haven't had an issue. Now that it's been identified as an issue, we need to be more mindful about how we do it. And the other Oh, there was another important question that was going to come up, but so you know, would it make sense to have another trustee be the host? Maybe that's a possibility. That's what's proposed as a suggestion. And, you know, that's a that's a potential way to do it. I guess I I just worry about being too like we have to do this, and we have to do it this way. I just, I'd like to leave some flexibility in how we do it, and and and again, we've had very, very few people who've actually taken Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:26:33 advantage of it. I will say it spoke to Victoria polidoro about this. I don't know how it came up. I think because she was it was up in that last meeting. So it was one of the things she read through while she was reading through. The other things she wanted to bring to our attention, making it mandatory for all meetings can get you into a pickle. Because if you have to pull like an emergency meeting, if there's a disaster, if there's like, something going on, it may not be possible to be on Zoom too. I forget the example she gave. But if it was something a disaster, like thing, and you had to have an emergency meeting, and she said, she said, making it mandatory in a very like black and white way can get you in a Frances Uku 2:27:17 pickle, then you can just have an exception for emergencies where this is only notice, publicly noticed. If they're emergent meetings that come up, then they don't have to be this is this? This is just, Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:27:29 I'm just reading to your attention that she was concerned about that line. So I'm just Karen Smythe 2:27:33 bringing it all, yeah, and also, I mean, I would encourage us all to, you know, take a look at what other municipalities do. And not that this is the right answer. But the town of Red Hook has, there's no, there's no link in they have, they have nothing virtual you. There's no way to, Frances Uku 2:27:51 they stream, they stream to YouTube. They can. They stream to YouTube. Karen Smythe 2:27:55 They used, they did during covid. They do not do that anymore. I did actually ask this to the town supervisor. Melkorka Kjarval 2:28:02 It's almost 9pm just saying that got it, yeah, that we should be don't have Karen Smythe 2:28:07 a ton left on your agenda. Frances Uku 2:28:10 Okay, well, I just It doesn't have to be this resolution. It doesn't have to be this resolution, but I guys that in a form that we're happy with. I just moving that we that we have zoom access for for meetings and workshops. You could even leave out info sessions and things. Info Session, it's as you say. I mean, Karen Smythe 2:28:31 we have so, I mean, again, I guess I I hesitate around the you have to for everything. No, no, no, this. Well, that's what it says, or at least that's the way I read it. Maybe I Frances Uku 2:28:43 read it wrong. No, it's what it says. But again, the other says, these are things we talk about. Karen Smythe 2:28:48 The other piece is, is there a question about changing the meeting link for every meeting? Is there something about Frances Uku 2:28:56 timing or two seconds that happens? Karen Smythe 2:28:59 It's not about setting it up. It's about noticing it. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:29:03 I do have to notice, for extraordinary situations, when I notice the meeting, I have to, there's something about noticing the link. It's like a week, I think, yeah, but which can be tricky, because you can, you can, you can say I'm sick and I can't be there today, and thereby the buddy link isn't out in time. Karen Smythe 2:29:22 But if we set it up that the meeting was going to be available by zoom anyway, it would be on the agenda that Melkorka Kjarval 2:29:28 went out. Yes, but the agenda is not put up a week before the meeting. Karen Smythe 2:29:33 Is it supposed to be a week before the meeting? Melkorka Kjarval 2:29:35 There's no agenda, okay? I mean, this is, it's one of the ways. I mean, there's a technical Yeah, reason not, because we don't care about transparency anyway, sorry, tired, Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:29:49 yeah, it can be. The timing is a little tricky. I mean, I I can engineer something around it. This feels a little Les Coon, H2O 2:29:56 bit like a work in progress. I think it's very important for. Fran, I think it's a to some degree, there's an optics here that you know, then, like you're saying, very few people take advantage of this. At the same time, you got a lot of people who would like to, I think it's complaining, because I think when you do a little work, you can access everything we do. Like most people don't want to do the work, and a lot of people, we have a lot of elderly people who don't understand, how does it work on those my parents swore to me for 20 years than evident, I think, used computers, even though, to spend over time. But the point being that I feel like we should continue to explore this. I think it's valuable, if for nothing else, to say that we're making attempts. But it has to be in a way that's doable and not taxing staff and us. My work at Bard involves a lot of these meetings where we did we resume, bombed multiple times, and the first time was truly dramatic and horrible. Frances Uku 2:31:00 You did also say what security settings? Les Coon, H2O 2:31:03 Well, that's the thing was, you know, they were for whatever the reason that that these, this meeting, or the previous meeting was, was zoomed on. The point is, I think there's value here. I just think we there's, there are, and I know this again, from my time, as far as the technical issues, like how to practice this is not easy, even though it should be. It feels like it should be. So I feel like we should continue discussing Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:31:32 this. Thank you, both of you, for your help on this. Les Coon, H2O 2:31:35 I appreciate it. I think the document Fran provided, I wish I had. Speaker 1 2:31:39 I mean, this is the Yeah, that's pretty great. Fran center was a magnet for haters, and I wish I had that there, so it's good. And that documents, Perry Allen 2:31:49 and I had something that I was going to bring up later in terms of public communicate, or communication ideas with the sewer about an intern and youth intern. So if in some way that comes around, it would be interesting to loop them into this like as you had in the past. I'd just be interested to touch back on that. Just turn that out there. But yeah, maybe we should Karen Smythe 2:32:13 Okay, so we will continue to discuss video conference. Excuse me, the fee schedule. The purpose of putting that on the agenda is so that you all take a look at it. We have a public hearing scheduled for May 11, which is our next meeting, and so this is just flagging it for you, so that you have the opportunity to look at it. Jen has actually done a wonderful job of making it clear what we're doing, what it was, and what it's going to and some notes on it. So now's your chance, right now, if you have anything to say. Melkorka Kjarval 2:32:59 So what you did was you kept the prior one as this, and then you did the proposed one, saying no change. So you can't hide the prior one. You now have to update that one line by line. Melkorka Kjarval 2:33:17 Well, you took the prior one and you added you added in notes if it stays the same. So now you have to go through and you have to edit each one of those lines. Karen Smythe 2:33:27 Are you asking her to do that? Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:33:29 No, I'm just saying that I feel bad because I asked her to put in the change. Oh, no, no. I mean, this structure is far clearer. Okay? I wish I did it this way to begin with. Okay? And what I can just do when it becomes final, or if it does, it doesn't, it's just delete the whole damn, I know you, but now you Karen Smythe 2:33:48 have to move. Says, No, change you have. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:33:50 That was my Yeah. I mean, there's not many of those. Okay, you know, Karen Smythe 2:33:58 don't worry. Yeah, so I don't if anybody has any comments or questions now, please feel free if you have any questions or comments in the meantime. You know, between now and May 11, please feel free to reach out. So for example, you know the building Planning and Zoning department fees that was put together by our building Clarke and the and our officer, etc, sewer. A lot of that is, is in the code. So yeah, and some of these are, you know, there's water, water items, some of these have, for example, the service turn on or off. If you want to turn off your water, you are required to contact the village. You are not allowed to be making those changes on your own. Am I tapping the IE of your app? Getting the water service or what have you. And then there's the police department. You can get your fingerprinting done here because you didn't know. I did not know, and I Karen Smythe 2:35:20 Yeah. And then there's the bulk pickup, garbage tax, etc. The idea is to have a one fee schedule that has everything on it, and then we would review this every year, back, last, last, that's why. Melkorka Kjarval 2:35:37 Okay, do we have any fees? Do we have anything for like, jumping? Like, let's say someone puts a piece of thing and they say it's free, and then they leave it out there until Jake finally picks it up. Is that in there? I think Karen Smythe 2:35:54 that would fall under trash removal, which is the bottom one. Melkorka Kjarval 2:35:58 Okay, so, okay, so it's just, can a police safer littering. Well, they have free on there, so, yeah, okay, I've done it again, a lot of things that way. There's a time when, if it's going to rain, you take it in. Karen Smythe 2:36:26 I actually don't have budget adjustments for you, because in going through them, I realized a couple of things about and I have to look into like, our water budget as adjusted has a negative is off by like $32,000 so rather than put something out that makes it worse, I will have budget adjustments for every for all three funds, there's a lot of one items, so communication survey. Melkorka Kjarval 2:37:00 Okay, so this is not finished. We still want people to sign up in Apple, awesome, basically just giving you guys, like a heads up to feedback and graphs. So far as of when I share this with 64 I haven't actually checked it since it's definitely interesting the I'm sure there are graphs in here that and in reality, these are longer. The they go longer the responses, if that makes sense, think, or maybe, you know, maybe it printed out the full response. Okay, great. Some of these. These are, like, longer, select, anyway, they are for your review. If there's any questions I did circulate amongst my network, so you're part of the 64 Thank you very much. 2925 Karen Smythe 2:38:01 before that was also, it was also in the daily catch, yeah, yeah. Melkorka Kjarval 2:38:06 One of the things that I love is, like, when you need to tell a village something, people just walk one person, you know, yeah, like that is, there's very few things that I do by showing up. You know what? I mean? Like, most of the things call you, email it, but most people show up. Yeah? Perry Allen 2:38:26 I think that's actually, yeah. That's a really great, great cultural element. This is a tricky Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:38:35 one in black and white, yeah, I encourage you to look online. Karen Smythe 2:38:39 Got it? Yeah? So I'm Perry Allen 2:38:41 assuming that was, Oh, this must for the expand existing, which is the highest one, that must be, send more pamphlets or something. I think it's some more emails. Send more emails. Melkorka Kjarval 2:38:50 Yeah, I think it was, it was the send more like newsletter emails. Perry Allen 2:38:58 Everyone likes your newsletters. That's where they're all reading, it too. That's the highest that's the way we communicate most. It looks Karen Smythe 2:39:06 like, well, but the idea of using, you know, email as, I mean, I did that during the big winter storm, which seemed like a nice way to just get a quick punch Perry Allen 2:39:20 out there. I'm also seeing her. Inserts mailed with the water bill are also pretty high, but Melkorka Kjarval 2:39:26 obviously that's a quarter, and it only goes out to people that pay the water bill. Which is an Karen Smythe 2:39:31 interesting thing, too. Interesting. Interesting. But the large majority of the respondents were Melkorka Kjarval 2:39:37 property owners. Yeah, yeah. Which is interesting too, right? Karen Smythe 2:39:40 It's how do we how do we get out the renters? Melkorka Kjarval 2:39:44 Well, that's how we did with the neighbors. Night postcard. We made a targeted thing to getting Karen Smythe 2:39:48 it to all well, you also, you also tax the survey notice on, yeah, Melkorka Kjarval 2:39:56 cell phone poles or whatever. But that was when I first came on the board. I had a Fran. She was renter who felt like the village never cared enough to reach out to her and she wasn't included in any communications. So it was important to me that we do the newsletter. I mean, that was Karen's pushing her project, but but also that for the neighbors nights that we sent the postcards to everyone, Laura worked with me going over all the apartment addresses, because a lot of them don't have postal addresses. It's not and then if you try to do, like, an area post thing that is bigger, and it's about roots more than it is about like, like a and it's not like, we have a zip code just for a village anyway, these are all the little things that you get caught up on when you try to solve one, yeah, Speaker 1 2:40:40 we just mailed this out to everybody. Yeah. Why isn't Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 2:40:45 that simple cards in Mylon? Perry Allen 2:40:47 Yeah? Because I have heard from people about getting more neighbors, physical things in the village, people like that, from what I've heard. But that's an interesting predicament, Frances Uku 2:40:57 may I ask? Since you mentioned about neighbors nights, about the status of those. Karen Smythe 2:41:04 So those were, those were put on by the events team. And honestly, it's neighbors nights are not a lot of work, but they Melkorka Kjarval 2:41:15 are a lot of they aren't. There's a lot of coordination. There's having the days available. And truthfully, we spent that all the energy on sewer info sessions this year. There was a lot of getting those up and making sure that everyone was coming to them. Karen Smythe 2:41:30 And, yeah, so right now, there are an unplanned doesn't understand, yeah, sort of bring them back up there, right? Les Coon, H2O 2:41:38 People, I think that's it. You know, the I'm just thinking the when they write, puts up the writing, I think that it's a good time for like PSAs. I mean, I've never seen, Oh, interesting. A couple 100 people. They're on, they're on the porch for little pickles. They that we leave the chairs out for him. And a good crowd for sure. Speaker 1 2:41:59 No, it's packed. I mean, a lot of them are the Les Coon, H2O 2:42:00 probably towns folks who were coming into the village, but Perry Allen 2:42:05 take the mic for a minute and announcing things. I heard Les Coon, H2O 2:42:09 that too. We have some Yes, I think we would like to buy the building we're in, but he doesn't want to piece it out. So I thought he did, that's what I thought. But Rebecca emailed. Rebecca, actually, I'm supposed to say she emailed him and he referred her to the, oh, to Karen Smythe 2:42:30 the real estate agent. Les Coon, H2O 2:42:31 So I don't know in the article Karen Smythe 2:42:33 that he, I mean, yeah, that's that was mine, his, his. Les Coon, H2O 2:42:36 Because the last time it was a little, I'm sorry, was a little offensive. I was just like, you can't sell our village he owned. Karen Smythe 2:42:43 I don't know. It's a big change. Perry Allen 2:42:45 Wow. You know if that changes, especially in one portfolio, well, Karen Smythe 2:42:50 be nice. If there were some pieces, it would be okay. So thank you. Thank you for that. It's always interesting Melkorka Kjarval 2:42:59 to share more once we have I'm hoping Karen Smythe 2:43:07 I'll be there. So okay, I can definitely go ahead. Okay, the next items, the next three are yours. Okay, great. Where are Perry Allen 2:43:19 we starting with constituent concerns. Okay, so this was really just a practice I wanted to start getting into and just letting everybody know, kind of predominantly what people have been reaching out to me about. So in case it starts to resonate with us as a board, we can move forward if we needed to. I I can just read these through. I'm so sorry. I meant to print these out beforehand so that everyone could have them. This is just the list I'm going to read through if you want have a copy. I do have copies here. Have copies for all Yeah, next time can you? Yes, I certainly will. That was completely my my bag. So I just wanted to the three things that I've had constituents reach out to me about. Are the field lighting, which I know we had an executive session about, but it felt important to bring it up. I had five separate people reach out to me. They were concerned. About the village character, with the height and the usage. One of them was a realtor who was concerned about property values, and one was a potential buyer waiting to see what the lights would look like before they even closed. So just putting that out there, Karen Smythe 2:44:17 just to clarify at this point, I encourage anyone who has a comment of any kind about the field lighting to contact the school. That's exactly Perry Allen 2:44:25 what I've told them all, and I think a lot of them did wind up attending good that just the thing that I hear from everybody. And I don't know if at some point this becomes a need for us to try to move forward with, but they feel there's not a site use plan on the books, and it would make them all feel a lot better just saying that. Okay, so those are the constituent I don't feel like we need to necessarily discuss unless we want to. I'm more. Just wanted to relay the information. Do you guys want to discuss or should I move on? Neighborhood traffic was the next one that people reached out to me about, and I had just noticed as. Was looking in the study about walkability, there was no study or it explicitly says not to look at traffic and parking shut under their purview, just wondering things they could do about that is, Are there studies about Karen Smythe 2:45:11 that, that we could pursue? So there's actually a fair amount of parking or traffic information through the Dutchess County Transportation Council and I actually they did a parking and traffic study for, I want to say beacon. And I asked Emily Dozier, I said, How do we get on that list? So I will ask her more formally about how we get on that list. Melkorka Kjarval 2:45:33 We did apply for a parking study to Dutchess County. We just didn't get it. Karen Smythe 2:45:36 Oh, interesting, right? It was like, and it's possible that the bigger version from Ty and Bob and had it included. And because we needed to make it smaller, cut that down, we might have cut it out. There's a fair amount of there's a fair I think the I mean, in the grand scheme of things, traffic is traffic. I mean, this is, this is not only a state truck road, it's a US Highway truck route. And that is not an easy thing to make, an adjustment. Apparently, apparently, Ed and Brent, back in the day, had a whole plan to reroute, like, Perry Allen 2:46:08 out, oh, like, kind of circumnavigate. I thought that, not that I think it would be a flyover. Karen Smythe 2:46:13 There was some suggestion the flyover that had the potential to elevate, significantly diminish Speaker 1 2:46:22 the village. I could imagine that as well, for sure, Karen Smythe 2:46:25 and but I think, I think this, it's good. I appreciate sort of the note, sure, Perry Allen 2:46:30 that's all, yeah, just great. Might be interesting, as we consider and the last one that I've been getting is helping the unhoused. We have a couple unhoused individuals in the village in need of temporary housing overnight. Couple constituents reached out to me being very concerned of the risk of death come the winter. They expressed, I've had multiple people, but he's certainly the main advocate. There was actually an instance the other day where one of the guys, I don't know him, his name yet, but he was, like, walking down the middle of the road, I think, in the middle of the day, and someone reached out to me about that after, like, is there any way that we can help? It wasn't Charlie, yeah, so just Melkorka Kjarval 2:47:17 not the person Karen Smythe 2:47:18 that's on house, I mean, and I, you know, it's also the balance of, I don't know that we need to use names when we're sort of discussing in public, even though, you know, we may all know what I clarify now, what I may Yeah, what I may do. I didn't mean Yes. Anyway, no, no. Frances Uku 2:47:36 Correct point to make. Karen Smythe 2:47:38 This is a very difficult and frustrating issue, and it might be worth having the police lieutenant come in and talk a little bit, because the police officers are very familiar, and the most visible unhoused are actually from Red Hook. They have family who are here. They are offered time and time and time and time and time and time again, rides to places, etc, unless they meet a very high criteria of incompetence or risk to themselves, you can't force them. And so that makes it so it may look like things aren't being done or offered, and that it really, actually isn't the case. The ones that are most obvious, they're, you know, they've been around for a while. I will say that the village has overlooked some rules to allow for Frances Uku 2:48:37 some accommodation. Karen Smythe 2:48:38 Accommodations is a good word. It's really, really, really, too bad that the Catholic Church scenario that we did last didn't turn out. And I will say that father Maurer was equally as disappointed. It was well, well beyond his hands. The one of the bigger issues, you know, the notion of, you know, I've got a camper, the village doesn't have a place for that, you know, do we? Do we really want a camper in the in the parking lot? Probably not. No. If it's gonna with, like, where's it gonna be? Who's gonna see it? Who's going to, you know, campers have their own little septic someone's got, you know, so, and when you have someone who walks down the middle of the street, there's obviously a mental health issue there, and in that situation, best thing for them to do is call red hot village police, because pretty sure they'll know who they are, and they are pretty good at talking to them and helping them understand that walking down the middle of the street is not a good idea. Can we help you? Can I take you somewhere, etc? And so this one is a really hard Melkorka Kjarval 2:49:46 one, but if you have, this is a great this is a great nut to crack, and like, something that has, like, lots of little and that overnights shelter was amazing, and it really worked to serve. And the other thing that was amazing. Was, you know, because I stayed over the next night, there a couple times, not as a person, as a volunteer, but that the people that actually came, they got enrolled in services because they have Karen Smythe 2:50:10 trust, because customer housing was involved, and that was an important part of that. And this is Melkorka Kjarval 2:50:15 no longer happening because Couple reasons, because the location that they had, the upper Karen Smythe 2:50:22 the powers that be indicated that their, their, their insurance didn't allow it, yeah, and then the other just to know, I asked, What if we were to fund the insurance? And I was told that that didn't solve the problem. Melkorka Kjarval 2:50:38 And then the other location that they had was outside of Tivoli. And I think that just didn't, yeah, it was just one of those things where Karen Smythe 2:50:45 it wasn't as good a location, yeah? Melkorka Kjarval 2:50:48 And then also, there was a volunteer issue. There weren't enough people to sustainably, always want, you know, like, there was a lot of emails, who's going to cover? Is anyone going to cover? Like it was, it was hard. There wasn't a volunteer base. There's a lot of people talking. They aren't necessarily the people that volunteered and showed up. Just, you know, keep that in mind, that that is, there are even people that we know, that, you know, complained, that didn't want it to happen. So, yeah, Perry Allen 2:51:15 oh, certainly I'm aware of that side, you know, whatever I bring. There's a also come from downtown Phoenix was a huge transient population, and I know how people feel about it, so yeah, and I Karen Smythe 2:51:24 will also say the services for mental health, services on House services, temporary shelter, the funding goes to the county for them. And so as you might imagine, the county puts all their funding and get all their resources in Poughkeepsie. Every opportunity I have, when I talk to anyone from the county, I say you all need to do a regional approach. Northern Duchess, yes, inter municipal. The flip side of that is there was a leave, it was a shelter. It was either a shelter or a mental health facility in Rhinebeck, and something happened with the location, and nobody wanted it in Rhinebeck. And so there was a little bit of a, you know, you can work very hard as county, county services, and then you have a community that says, yeah, no, we don't, you know, we'd like you here somewhere, but not, not here. And so finding, obviously, being in the village. And the other piece that's tricky is it depends on who you're housing many times, not always, but many times, those who are unhoused have mental health issues or substance abuse issues, and so just putting them in a place they really need some services to go with. And where does that come from? And how does that work? The notion of where, where are they permitted to be? There's been many suggestions of just opening up the info booth, and there are no, there are no facilities in there, and those who broke in over and over again just used the floor toe, and that meant that the DPW was cleaning it up. And that's not appropriate. That's not and it is a liability for the village. It's not set up for housing. It is a very difficult issue that the solution seems, Melkorka Kjarval 2:53:15 seems hard. I want to add one thing more, thing that Dutchess County is our social services area, right? So it's basically, that's where the funding gets bundled through, but it's federal dollars. So federal dollars, the way that they actually, even the county, has to pay for things, is they have to meet certain eligibility requirements. So any kind of program or shelter as you you might Are you aware of the shelters in Poughkeepsie? They all have different like population, and that is because those are both, because you wouldn't put, you know, teens with, you know, adults, but the same time. It's also because they're different funding pools, and so often, if you know, they were to fund something that it would be with, like specific eligible community, you know, eligibility criteria, like a veteran or someone that has substance abuse, or someone that is, you know, recently different like criteria match Perry Allen 2:54:11 grant that they're putting out. You mean in terms of that, not the matter, Melkorka Kjarval 2:54:15 but like for things that come from that are paid back by federal funds. It's often through this eligibility. So it's often like a puzzle piece these things, you might have someone that you want to go to a shelter nearby, and the only one that they're eligible for is Speaker 1 2:54:33 sure, no, it's interesting. Karen Smythe 2:54:34 That's interesting. And the matching grant, if we had the location here at the Catholic Church, that'd be perfect, because it would fund Hudson River housing. It would, you know, etc. Perry Allen 2:54:52 I feel passionate about this, so I'm going to do some leg work, see if I can start some sort of conversation, but then we'll see how it goes. Yeah, great. But I hear, I hear all that good. Karen Smythe 2:55:05 Do you want to switch, switch your last two and just you got public communication ideas regarding the sewer? Speaker 1 2:55:10 Oh, yeah, I think that is that one next. Karen Smythe 2:55:13 Well, I had the state policies, but yeah, Perry Allen 2:55:14 let's do the soup public communication. But that would be more interesting conversation. We can even table the last one to the next meeting that one and again. So sorry. I promise I will have these in advance from now on. Okay, so these are also just ideas that I wanted to brainstorm because people have expressed not getting enough communication about the sewer. Okay, so here we go. Okay, I think we should maybe push the sewer specific us sewer specific newsletter to the current users and anyone who wants to be on the list, this is essentially what you already do in the newsletter of Karen, where you give a little breakdown about the sewer. Maybe we can kind of combine that with the condensed version of the monthly report, some version of this that we send out, I would be happy to take on the task of doing so, so we're not creating more work. And then I had put this on here before seeing the response for the survey of maybe we should consider printing these as well, because people seem to like the hard copy stuff, but I hear the concern about getting those out there and the cost, yes, whereas the email we could just do. I'll just read through these, I suppose, and we can just hash them out or or even just take these with you and brainstorm. Think about it, and we can come back at the next meeting. More public listening sessions, cups of coffee, sewer office hours, which I know required a lot of energy in the past, so we do it in a different style, maybe it's less formal or something. Karen Smythe 2:56:50 I mean, well, it obviously, you know, the first, the first one we did was, was last April, 1, and there was a lot of, there was a lot of emotion around it, and that, you know, that needed to happen for the first one, but we've done six in a year. Amazing. So we have done a lot, and, you know, certainly happy, happy to consider. And it may be not just sewer. Maybe we just talked about doing a quarterly info session, which could Melkorka Kjarval 2:57:23 be, well, it was helpful. Yes, that's Perry Allen 2:57:25 right, yeah, yeah. It's kind of more just casual conversation. Yeah. We talked about at the last meeting the super report, lessons learned, which was fantastic. You sent over that document. I think if we were to take everything that exists and put it into just a one page, maybe two page, just digestible thing to just hand to people, because I was recently reached out to by somebody on the saw kill coalition in concern of the sewer, and they had certain questions that had been answered a year and a half ago, not even more recently than that. And so to that point, I was kind of surprised of Oh, some of the misunderstand, some of some of the concern is real and genuine and grounded, and some of the concern actually stems from misinformation. So if we had a very simple document, could be easy for that. You had mentioned website stuff. I if it could just go right there on the website, you know, and just boom, sewer, click on it so you don't have to look for anywhere. Karen Smythe 2:58:30 Tricky part about that is, when you're looking for sewer, you want that to be front and center building department. You want that so it is, I mean, departments is one of the first tabs, and the sewer is the sewer department. And, you know, so, yeah, that's fair enough. Melkorka Kjarval 2:58:47 Or do you want the sewer operations page? Great question. You can get back to me. You can think about it. Perry Allen 2:58:55 You don't have, no, I don't have it on my head in terms of that. Yeah, no, I forget which one I was looking at. To be honest. I think when I got to it, I found everything I could ever want, which was amazing. But then also I was kind of like drowning, whoa, there's a lot here. Karen Smythe 2:59:14 So with may, you know, I don't think we need to do it now, but I think just the sort of the sewer page, because, because Mel Clarke just did reorganize the page so it's actually easier to find the I'm sure, yeah, but there's always the opportunity for someone who's not as hasn't looked Melkorka Kjarval 2:59:32 at it as much as clarity is kind. So anytime that you can make something clear, and that's how I feel, in a more brief way, that you can absorb, I'm always open to that, agreed, great. I mean, obviously that's, it's not, it's the mayor's decision, but I'd be happy to post if you have like, a sheet, Perry Allen 2:59:48 sure, yeah, I'll think through that some more. Okay, this is my most out there idea. But if we had a specific social media team just about the sewer that's particularly branded, do. Is about the sewer you get our band name that we were talking about. I came up with sewer rats while I was thinking about it with a Z, and we brand the whole thing, kind of like an 80s band. Just they want to take a lot of work. We wouldn't be wasting taxpayer money, but it would just be another means of educating the people about the program. We could be featuring the team members. We could be featuring what's going on. We could be sending out announcements specifically rated to sewer. And this was something that I thought could be taken on by the role of a youth intern, who could perhaps also take on some of these other responsibilities of communication that we were just talking about. I'm just really passionate about engaging the youth in civic life for my former life as a teacher, so in any ways that I could bring them in, Karen Smythe 3:00:46 having, I've actually had several, we've had several Vard interns and and as I'm sure you imagine, some are better than others. It's, it's the most effective is they, they support, but they're not going to take the lead. And so it's, it's balancing the Okay, what? What needs to be done. Somebody has to guide them, sure, because they're not going to know enough. They're not etc. So sort of finding that balance. I am always happy to talk about an intern having a clear sort of description of and I think the whole idea around social media is something that we ought to have a discussion on at another workshop. Because, you know, it's, it sounds so easy, we'll just post on social media. But the reality is, somebody's got to, you know, there has to be sort of a plan for the posting. Someone has to create the post, and then there has to be a decision. Do you allow comments? If you don't allow comments, that's one thing. If you do allow comments, somebody has to somebody has to monitor them. I think we got no comments. But if this is a Jen's about to say, is literally anything that's posted from the village has to be kept so because, Speaker 1 3:02:03 or you mean Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:02:09 including all comments in all comments that ever were so all comments that ever were commented and deleted. We have to Karen Smythe 3:02:17 have record of the deletion. Do we if, if we don't allow comments and somebody reposts it. We don't have to go get those comments. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:02:24 Do? I would need, I would need guidance. Karen Smythe 3:02:27 Yeah, that'd be, yeah, that'd be a good Clarke, so that's where, you know, it sounds simple on its face, and then it's like, well, what does, what does that look like? It sounds Melkorka Kjarval 3:02:35 like it would be a lot of fun. It sounds like a lot of fun, but, yeah, there's a lot of details in there that I'm happy Perry Allen 3:02:41 not to figure out. I'd be happy to figure some of it out if it seems Karen Smythe 3:02:45 like a digest. But I also think that conceptually, I mean, I'm hoping that we don't have a lot to talk about the sewer always. I mean, I'm hoping that, you know, an occasional thing, yes, but you know, hopefully we sort of get out of the headlines occasionally. So maybe the idea of social media in general is it's a Village of Red Hook, and then you've got the sewer rats, you've got the water water, Speaker 1 3:03:11 yeah, sure, so and so you could different ways of featuring the day, but it's all Karen Smythe 3:03:15 under the umbrella of the Village of Red Hook, and then sort of a communication plan can be thought about as to what we want to you know, then do we want to be promoting any of the events that are happening, that are happening on public property? And then when do you say yes, and when do you say no? And you know, invariably, you start down that path, and it's like, well, but, but I want to do that, but not that, but how do I distinguish between the two? And so anyway, it's, it's, I think it's worthy of a conversation. It's, but there's a reason why Mel corco included. What do you want to the village to invest in? Because there's no extra staff time available. And so maybe, you know, be great to have someone whose portion of their job was communicate, you know, sort of the communication whatever officer or whatever. But that's that would be extra to what we're currently currently doing. And then also, possibly Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:04:12 for record retention, you might need another software to capture all those posts and right to log them, and because of different topic, areas will have to be kept longer sometimes. I mean, I, I have not looked into it fully, but I know it's a thing. So it could be, it could be a cost for there's a digital communications line that could be used for that, but we do need to figure out what that is like, what Karen Smythe 3:04:39 the right and just to clarify the there are new regulations coming down the pike related to accessibility of your website, and it means that PDFs can't be PDFs at this point, though, they're going to have to figure something out. Right now, it has to be a web page. And I don't know if you can save, can you save a word on. It as a website, Speaker 3 3:05:04 but the ADA does, will follow into social media as well. It doesn't, it doesn't end at the website. Karen Smythe 3:05:11 Yes, yes. Now is not the time Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:05:13 to react. But I were told we highly Speaker 3 3:05:14 recommend jumping into this, because it is Melkorka Kjarval 3:05:17 Did you guys know that we are the only Village of Red Hook, which is why we can have our, our we don't have in our, in our domain, because we are the only Village of Red Hook and the state of the United States really, yeah, we're unique. That's cool, whereas the town has to have, and why in theirs? Speaker 2 3:05:38 Anyway, if an individual board, because of Brooklyn, Les Coon, H2O 3:05:44 had a social media account, which I'm sure we all do, and then was publishing things to that to their page, are they beholden Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:05:55 to rules? If you become It Becomes You official. If you start posting a lot of village stuff, right? It becomes your official Speaker 3 3:06:04 it jumps over to being a village entity, Les Coon, H2O 3:06:09 so just by way of its content, right? So let me ask you this. I have sub stack that I have procrastinated for six months putting anything on, and it was generally supposed to be on my scholarly work, which I didn't feel like advertising right after the election, because, you know Speaker 2 3:06:29 what, I studied, reasons Les Coon, H2O 3:06:31 for some people is a little infallible. It's coming. But I guess I also had this idea like, why don't I could also write about my experiences joining the board, but I was very reluctant to do that without understanding the implication I wouldn't do it right. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:06:44 I mean, unless you get right, Les Coon, H2O 3:06:47 it's not like illegal, it's not like AOC putting stuff out because she's got a whole staff and federal funding, because she's got a, you know, I'm just thinking Karen Smythe 3:06:56 about what I see that is her as a public figure, and right, it is, it is. So she's got Les Coon, H2O 3:07:01 her own set of responsibilities for that. Yes, that's looked after. Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:07:04 If you started your a new sub stack Speaker 3 3:07:07 right of trustee rosty, right, and somehow it was Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:07:15 recorded, or I had copy of it for foil reasons and record retention reasons, then I think that would be fine, but if you start mixing it in, like Robert McKeon posting all that stuff like he has a foilable account, yes, right, okay, which is why I say don't use your Amy Smith 3:07:35 cell phone. Frances Uku 3:07:38 What were you referring to with the McKeon, he posted, oh, his personal, like, he posts the town stuff in his personal account. Personal is now, yeah, he probably figures that that's the case. Karen Smythe 3:07:54 And I, and I go, and I believe it's, it's ideal also, if you were to create a separate substack to say, you know, this is me as an individual trustee. I do. Melkorka Kjarval 3:08:03 I have a campaign social media that I put in the thing that is, this is me personally. I don't speak for the board, but yeah, also, anyone personal, Perry Allen 3:08:16 okay, yeah, I suppose I don't need to go through the last things I will. But if we're going to talk about the next time, just to throw them out there, I did want to talk to you about the changes to how do you how do you know that a circus seeker, seeker, there's some changes coming to that that I think could affect us, and we can talk about, and then also the keep New Yorkers SAFE Act. I know that on the books. Frances Uku 3:08:42 But I just want to make sure that they have Speaker 1 3:08:45 all the support that we need to not do that. So just not yet been passed. Karen Smythe 3:08:51 Yes, the governor is definitely pushing, certainly seeker, I think both of them so it, I mean hopefully, hopefully hopefully they will have passed the budget for the time we meet next Sure. But I think Perry Allen 3:09:05 with the seeker, there's a possibility of expressing, expressing our concern for if, if we felt concern as a board. I think I personally do, because it's, I guess we're getting into it. But as the changes push forward, they diminish certain environmental protections as a means of pushing forward affordable housing, which I'm all about, but I don't think the two necessarily have to come at a cost. So if we as a board wanted to discuss urging the governor to reconsider some of those, I know there are other municipalities going down that road, and I could provide sample materials for us, if we like, just putting that out there. Okay? I mean, Karen Smythe 3:09:49 I think it's important to, I mean, it's, it gets a little more complicated, because some of the definitions like it basically says, if, if it's undisturbed land, if it's disturbed. Land, you don't need seeker, yes, you don't need the environmental review. But the definition of disturbed, when I read that, I said, well, the the Rocco property is clearly undisturbed, but apparently that actually would qualify as disturbed because it was farmed at one point, right? Yeah, and that was surprised to me, so I'd have to read it more carefully to understand what elements I think conception, think conceptually, making the process not take 10 years to do a development is a good thing. But the, you know, the how does, how does it manifest with the details that that's that's important for sure, Perry Allen 3:10:35 I will send around every thing I have on it, just if it helps provide any more info. Karen Smythe 3:10:41 And I think, I mean, you all, as individuals are, are fully welcome to make any comments. You know, you can always send in a thing saying, I don't, Oh, I see do this. You don't sure it doesn't. I mean, it can't be as it's not as the board Speaker 1 3:10:54 representing the board Karen Smythe 3:10:55 in this way I am, you know, trustee, Trustee Allen, and this is my point of view. I didn't think there's anything holding you back from there. We did mention police brochure. I have a copy Melkorka Kjarval 3:11:10 any letter we can send. Things on letterhead. Frances Uku 3:11:14 Do we have current letterhead? Just as a question, we Jen Cavanaugh, Clerk 3:11:16 have different letterhead? I that would be a discussion for the board. But I just need copies of anything that you say you're a trustee on. I think, okay, Speaker 3 3:11:27 I don't know. I mean, this is all very interesting. Frances Uku 3:11:30 I don't need to send anything for Melkorka Kjarval 3:11:35 trucks being, like, under like, safety review stuff. So the federal law like not being so big, I guess they're trying to make them bigger, and I did that as a trustee, but not as a board. Obviously, would I have to submit that to you? Karen Smythe 3:11:50 I think that's worthy of that's a good question for nicom, yeah. So the one of the item that we added took me a minute to remember. I wrote down please for all of your information, Fran, you touched on something very specific, the notion of the services that we provide to the town of Red Hook, versus the portion of the cost that the town covers for our police department is out of proportion. And so something that, and I've we had an initial conversation with the town supervisor, the lieutenant and the sergeant, and something that I and actually, and Mel corco was at that meeting, and Mel corco actually said, what if we did a study about different how police departments are structured and funded and that. And so the town supervisor took that, and that was decided that that, from his perspective, all services should be studied. I don't agree with that rather strongly. I do think that studying the police department, police departments, and how they're structured and how they're funded, it has changed over time. There used to be a lot of people who went to the academy and when they came out, they wanted experience, but there weren't. There weren't full time jobs available right away. So you we used to be able to train and keep someone right out of the Academy for a couple years. Now they come out of the Academy, we train them, and they stay about two months, and that's just that's not sustainable. And so how do we end as everyone else is trying to get people, because there aren't as many coming through the academy. Everybody's increasing their rates so they can poach from others. And we have increased our rates, but not as much as others. So it's a little harder for us to poach from others, which is where you get your your people. So there's, there's kind of, there's this shifting from a broader, longer term structure situation. And so we have been capturing for the last couple three years in in bulk, not perfect, how many, how much time the officers are spending on the town versus the village, versus Tivoli versus the school. And so pulling that data together, doing a doing a review, looking at what's the true cost, full cost, of a police department, all of that is is really important, and discussing with the town either they need to pay a larger portion or we need to provide less service. And so that sort of leads to and then there's also the fire service and EMS, those are also, they're not the same. And so they would ultimately be three separate studies, but that's all sort of public safety and emergency services. And so there's, sort of, to me, there's a lot. Project for all three of those, any other services, some studies have been done. We did dissolve our our village court, so at the end of next March, we will no longer have a village court, which is a very good decision to make. I you know, we pick up garbage the town doesn't. You know, there's services that we provide that I think there's a reason why we provide them in the village and they don't in the town. So I just think that would dilute the focus by studying everything. Of diluting Melkorka Kjarval 3:15:30 focus, that's probably why he started this, this big making I mean, those numbers looked pretty interesting the way he put them, I don't know well. Karen Smythe 3:15:41 I mean, the taxes, taxes are higher in the village than they are in the town, but the village also provides more services than the town does so and there are other there are other examples that one can look at. I mean, are we optimal? I don't know. I mean, it's certainly Melkorka Kjarval 3:15:55 but like a village with the police, we also have the Tivoli patrol contract. We have the school Correct? Oh, sorry, I was talking about please. Oh, please. Sorry, yeah, yep. So it is not just a village versus a town, correct? And then there is the amount that they pay for patrols, how many patrols they get versus how much coverage we get. We get a lot more coverage in the village than we do the town. The Town does not pay for that much coverage, which, you know, that's up to Robert, but they also get, you know, any kind of response benefit. Karen Smythe 3:16:27 They benefit from the readiness. Melkorka Kjarval 3:16:30 100% something happens. I'm just saying he could pay for more, yeah, Melkorka Kjarval 3:16:40 yes, yeah. Agreed it would serve the town, you know, residents. I even Perry Allen 3:16:44 felt that way. If we're gonna, if you're gonna brag about how much money you have, then let's start paying up for the services that you're taking from us, adequate, adequate wages for adequate work. Frances Uku 3:16:58 Yes. So is that the sort of thing that we would want to address, to the board, to the town board. I mean, as far as formal Karen Smythe 3:17:07 response, there are two pieces to that. One is the notion of a study to determine what's the optimal sort of way to structure. Frances Uku 3:17:17 But you just said that, and I agree that the why, why study like there's, Karen Smythe 3:17:22 that's what he I think. I think we should study, I think we should study police departments, and I think we should study Fire, fire companies and our fire service, just those. Frances Uku 3:17:32 Yeah, no, it was only police. I thought we were talking specifically about police and and I do the towns, Karen Smythe 3:17:39 but I also disparate town that the town, we need to rebalance. Either we reduce our services or they increase what they need to increase. So actually, in the process, I mean, that is one of the things on my list, is to gather all the data to put it together, to to review with with the police lieutenant, because I my ideas are slightly different than his, so Melkorka Kjarval 3:18:03 it's one of the reasons why we switched to ADP, was so that we could track this information and we could make a case to the town Karen Smythe 3:18:10 just to clarify the added time and attendance to ADP. Melkorka Kjarval 3:18:13 We already with ADP. Sorry, I apologize, but it was like the idea of having data that we could back up Perry Allen 3:18:19 and feels pressing, especially with union contracts being renegotiated this year, Karen Smythe 3:18:24 right next year? Oh, it's next year. It's, it's timely. It's, it's, it's time. I mean, you know, over the next several months, reviewing the data, taking a look at it, having conversations, this is the time. Melkorka Kjarval 3:18:37 What were you asking? You are asking what the board action would be, Frances Uku 3:18:42 I just floated whether we would want to send a letter just basically stating some of these things, like, I know you're going to go backward, and I was strictly based on the budget. So the police budget, as we have just approved in the general fund, is 1.1 6 million is police. So of that, and that's, I mean, we can pull out the budget of that. We pay a certain portion of that. There is school. I mean, yes, we village, the village pays a certain portion. There's just, like you said, there's school, there's Tivoli patrol, and there's town, but we pay just separating out those other things the town. I mean, there's another way to put it, they don't pay their fair share. And so if we're going to be having Karen Smythe 3:19:26 articles and to be and I think the additional information is to mount Corkers point, we have patrols seven days a week, 365, days a year. So and so we have significantly more coverage than the town does. So there's and, I mean, I have looked over time, the amount that the village is paying hasn't gone up significantly. We've We've increased significantly the amount we're getting in through our contracts, but there still is an imbalance that that needs to be. Addressed. So it will come up. You know, going forward, there is apparently a some sort of consolidation grant, not consolidation. That's the very much the wrong word, working together, shared services. Thank you, Grant. That's not till next February. So I'm really hoping we can push that to be sooner, because I don't want to wait that long, because you, you apply for the grant, you then couple months before you get the grant, and then you have to do the grant. So, you know, that's a year and a half away, and we really should be addressing it, Perry Allen 3:20:32 yeah, and that would be the study, that would be the grant for the study of shared services, yeah, Karen Smythe 3:20:37 that was the general figure it out, general idea. Melkorka Kjarval 3:20:41 We may have to it too. That's the Karen Smythe 3:20:44 problem the town, yes, but we also have to agree to it. So, yeah, Frances Uku 3:20:49 sure, yeah, my only, my only suggestion was, was starting a conversation. No, not a public comment, back, no. It to them like it doesn't have to be, you know, yeah. I mean, the press, I guess, may pick up on it, but it was just inviting them to a conversation. Like the town supervisor made certain comments, you know, particularly regarding the village's fiscal health and all of this that just, you know, come to the table and talk to us if this is the way you feel, then, then the town and the village should have a conversation about what is actually, I mean, based on, okay, Jen, I thought you had a face on, just like a conversation between municipalities, it's okay, just a conversation between Karen Smythe 3:21:32 also, just to clarify, I know that I shared with you, and I can't remember if I gave it to you, the Office of the State Controller gave the village they they measure fiscal stress. We know that. And so we have a no determination of fiscal stress, which is the best rating you can get. So currently, the village is in, is in strong, strong financial position. Frances Uku 3:21:57 Yeah, yeah. So that's what I mean that like, there's, we know that as far as fiscal health, but also there's public perception, you know, and not to be getting into, but it's worth, yes, that's right. That's right. Melkorka Kjarval 3:22:07 Happens when people make political moves in the press. We get screwed. It happens, happens a lot. Well, I mean, it hurts all of our reputation, Karen Smythe 3:22:17 but we have an opportunity to address it and to and to respond. So I didn't have anything for Executive Session. I don't know if we can do the executive session that you wanted at another time, but I do need to. I need? I may? I have a motion to ratify bills. We didn't pay any bills in advance, so I don't need to do that. I need, I may, I have a motion to ratify, to approve the audited vouchers as presented by the treasurer, to be paid in the following amounts. This is on her, on her April, 23 2026, report, general fund, $49,221.38 sewer fund, i a Karen Smythe 3:23:26 $3,614.03 trying to be more specific in our it's not legally required, but it is recommended. And for the water fund, $23,698, $23,698.16, thank Melkorka Kjarval 3:23:47 you. Second, yeah, sorry, just all in favor. Perry Allen 3:23:52 Thank you very much. I had just a technical question about filling them out. I had noticed there were already a couple that were flagged by others, but then they were still signed, even though there was a discrepancy. That's how we move forward. Karen Smythe 3:24:08 Just questions, yeah, it depends. So yes, you were raising a good so I just kind of left it. I didn't sign it. I know I flagged a couple because what was up here, yeah, didn't match what was down here, yes, but the down here was fine. Was fine. So I felt like it was okay to that, because this is just how it gets recorded. Okay? Those were the only ones that I flagged. If there's one that you flag that you feel is wrong, like I don't want to pay this or we should talk about it, the time when we get to the vouchers is the time to say I'd like to pull out this one. We can then approve the remaining vouchers and discuss the one, the separate one, good to know, but I think that's Melkorka Kjarval 3:24:49 Mary Beth email me on my two questions today. Karen Smythe 3:24:53 And there was, I think Fran, you had, you had a question, and she responded and actually added something too. So that's the. The benefit of her having them available Thursday night. And then if you all have a chance to go through them, then on Monday morning, she can look at it and say, Oh, let me answer that question. Or, you know what we have you. So sometimes it's just a this doesn't make sense, and she has an answer. Sometimes there's etc, but as I say, I know mine were related to, and you had a question about about shipping and handling, and that was, you know, the local company, but they were getting the problem from California, so that that was an answer, yes. Okay with that. I'm going to ask for a motion to adjourn. So So, hey, I've got a motion. I need a second. All in favor. Hi, excellent. Thank you very much. Thanks everyone. Perry Allen 3:25:51 Yeah, I like this. I like this format, you know, this is nice, Karen Smythe 3:25:56 yeah, and, and for our formal board meetings, you know, but it's like for sure, this they used to be upstairs. Oh, interesting. Well, because there wasn't, there wasn't really an encouragement for people to come. So when people came, it just got really squished. And so we started coming down here. And actually we used to do it Thursday night, the same night as the zoning board, so they actually had couldn't. So that was another reason to change. We Karen Smythe 3:26:33 started that pretty quick after I because I very much for we got to pay our bills. Perry Allen 3:26:40 I think I did not Karen Smythe 3:26:44 actually signed each one together. It seemed logical to take that opportunity. Transcribed by https://otter.ai